Brainy Moms
Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast with smart ideas to help moms and kids thrive! Hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore along with rotating co-hosts Sandy Zamalis, Teri Miller, and Dr. Jody Jedlicka, this weekly show features conversations and guest experts in parenting, psychology, child development, education, and medicine with practical tips to help moms navigate the ups and downs of parenthood. We're smart moms helping make moms smarter...one episode at a time!
Brainy Moms
The Art of Calm and Intentional Parenting with guest Holly Swenson
On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, discover the transformative power of conscious parenting as Dr. Amy and Sandy talk with Holly Swenson, an award-winning author, nurse, and mother of four. Holly shares her groundbreaking approach to parenting, inspired by principles from her latest book, "Stop, Drop, Grow, and Glow." Learn how the "five rights of parenting," derived from nursing practices, can foster deeper connections and holistic wellness for both parents and children. Holly's insights promise to reshape your understanding of parental presence and intentionality.
Explore the intricate balance of power and responsibility in parenting today. Holly delves into the art of embracing vulnerability, where apologies and accountability become tools for teaching valuable life lessons to children. Understand the profound impact of personal well-being on parenting efficacy, as we highlight the critical role of self-compassion amidst stress and sleep deprivation. We shed light on the evolving dynamics across generations, advocating for a nurturing yet authoritative relationship with your children.
Uncover practical strategies to maintain harmony and resilience in your parenting journey. Holly's "Stop, Drop, Grow, and Glow" framework offers a blueprint for managing stress and emotions, promoting mindfulness and self-awareness. From setting firm yet empathetic boundaries to distinguishing reactivity from responsiveness, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Embrace the power of love as a guiding force, and learn how to harness mindfulness techniques to transform challenges into growth opportunities for you and your family.
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Hi, smart moms and dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, brought to you today by LearningRx Cognitive Training Centers. I'm your host, dr Amy Moore, I'm joined by my co-host, sandy Zimalis, and we are excited to bring you a conversation with our guest today, holly Swenson. Holly is an award-winning and best-selling author on the rise and on a mission to bring more wellness, joy and intentionality to parenting and beyond. In addition to being an author, she's also a nurse, a wellness blogger, a mother to four incredible sons and a perpetual student of life. She's here to talk to us about some concepts from her new book Stop, drop, grow and Glow. Welcome, holly.
Holly Swenson:Thank you so much for having me this morning. It's really a pleasure to connect with both of you.
Sandy Zamalis:We're so glad you're here. So whenever we have authors on, we always want to know the story behind the story. So share with us, share with our listeners, how you got into the conscious parenting space and kind of where that passion started.
Holly Swenson:Sure. So, you know, the biggest premise was was me walking the path of parenthood. You know, we have four children, four boys, and I've had to learn a lot of things, you know, as the path has unfolded. And so, for me, I really wanted to create a framework and provide tools for parents so that they can activate more wellness in their life, because I think it's an area that so many people need support with. You know, parenting is an extended season and so I think you need to do what it takes to take care of you so that you optimally can take care of your kids, and so that, really, for me, was the premise, and I had wanted to write for a long time and I kind of kept putting it off, but then I made time and I sat down and just got after it and it's been the best decision I've ever made.
Dr. Amy Moore:I love that, and I think that it's more authentic when we can speak and write about things that were so passionate, that come from a wealth of our own experiences, those aha moments, right as parents, as moms, when we go, oh, I should put that in a book, right. And so I actually had a friend's mom growing up who every time we would have an interesting conversation, she would say I'm putting that in my book, I'm putting that in my book, and it would be crazy stuff, stuff you would never want in a book, right. But I always wondered whatever happened to those. I should put that in a book one day, ideas. And so it sounds like you got on it pretty quickly.
Holly Swenson:Absolutely no, I think. Like I said, I think taking you know what my lived experience, what I witnessed in the world, and also I married a little bit of my nursing background into my, into my work, you know as well. So it's it's got some fun layers in there and, I think, a lot of applicable stuff that can help people really start to thrive. That's, that's the ultimate goal.
Dr. Amy Moore:Absolutely All right. So, speaking of your nursing background, you took that classic five rights of medication administration right, right root, right dose, right person I'm missing a couple, but you took that idea of the five rights of medication that all nurses are trained in and you adapted that to a five rights of parenting. And by rights it doesn't mean what is my right to do something, but what we should do right as parents, right. Talk a little bit about those.
Holly Swenson:Yeah. So the five rights of parenting are really designed to be a quick way to touch base with yourself on how you're presenting as a parent and really they ensure you're doing the right thing and not causing unnecessary harm to your child or yourself in the process of parenting. So really think of these rights as supportive parenting protocol. Okay, so it's. It's just really a way that you can touch base with your own heart on how things are going.
Holly Swenson:So the first one is is right now, and this one is about being in the moment with your child and being present.
Holly Swenson:You know, not texting, not working on three different things while your child needs you, but but when you show up, you're really showing up and being all in, and. And the reality is like, if you can't put aside what you're doing because for so many of us it's like, hey, I'm really in the middle of something and I can't step away right, this second that you, you know, maybe you give your child a hug or you set a time like maybe it's 10 minutes, maybe it's a half an hour that you can be intentional, so that they know that you see them, so they feel seen, heard, valued, and it allows you to wrap what you're doing, but that it also is helping you be more present in your own parenting, Because I think that when it comes to parenting, there are no repeats. Time is ever fleeting, and so you really want to maximize that time that you have and live in the moment as often as possible. So that's the first one.
Dr. Amy Moore:So I think it's important, like when we make that decision, to say, okay, if my child walks into the room and I'm on my phone, I'm going to put down my phone and be present with my child, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't look like we're annoyed that we have to put down our phone, right, like we have to be really careful about our body language and our facial expression and not just our intent.
Holly Swenson:Sure, absolutely. Yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole package. So, yeah, so, and I think you, you know the reality and I think think we are. We're all like masters of distraction. You know. People are living so distracted um, and we're all multitasking, and especially parents, where you have a lot of hats you're wearing. So it's.
Sandy Zamalis:it's a hard thing to remember, but but as often as you can remember it, it really will shift dynamics in your home um, this is a good thing to model right, like you're just modeling that for them, because you want them to grow up with those same skills as technology starts to invade their world more and more.
Holly Swenson:Yeah, role modeling is huge. I totally agree. The second right is the right intent, and so I think that you want to be intentional with the choices you make, the guidelines you set and how you're treating your child. You know, if you don't know why you're doing what you're doing, it might be time to reevaluate your parenting strategy. You know, if you're just simply doing what, you know what was passed down to you but it didn't really feel good to you in your childhood but you're kind of unconsciously passing on, you know, some of these elements to the next generation. You might just touch base with yourself on on you know if there might not be a better way to to practice. You know parenting because it is a practice. It's always evolving, but I think that you just want to wake up more in your own life and be more intentional with why you're doing what you're doing. So so the second one is just really kind of checking yourself and checking in and and and seeing if there's anything that might need some shifting.
Dr. Amy Moore:So because your parents did it that way might not be the best reason for you to do it that way is what I'm hearing you say.
Holly Swenson:Exactly, and you might've had great parents, and, and, then, and, and. If that's the case, then then yes, pass on what you learned because it worked and it was effective and it felt good. But if it wasn't, if you didn't have that, then maybe consider shifting some of those generational patternings.
Sandy Zamalis:Yeah, don't be afraid to be your own person too, like my daughter, my my daughter clocked me one time. She told me I am not you Right. So, like having that discussion of you, know it's okay for them to find their way. And then, as you as a parent, you're allowed to find your way of what parenting strategies work for you, because even if your parents were wonderful parents, those strategies might not work for you. So you have to find those things that do.
Holly Swenson:Well, I think you bring up a good point. You know your children come from you, but ultimately they are their own people.
Holly Swenson:And sometimes it's hard to let go of what you think they should be doing and what they actually want to be doing, because they have their own. They should have their own ownership and autonomy, and I think it's important to remind yourself of that. It's hard, you know, when they're little they kind of go along with whatever you, mom or dad say, but as they get older they really want to step into being more of who, who they want to be. So giving them some of some of that freedom when it's appropriate it's, it's healthy.
Dr. Amy Moore:So so, when you are thinking about being intentional in the parenting decisions that you're making, what is your advice on the types of things that parents should consider Right, so like, okay, as I make this decision and I'm being intentional about this process or the decision that I'm making, what should they consider?
Holly Swenson:Well, I think, like, for me, what like comes to mind when you ask this question? It's more like, um, you know, and this is something we will talk about a little bit later but like reacting. So you know, like, maybe your kids having, you know, tantrum, if they're younger, or or they're you're getting a lot of pushback as they get older and they're, you know, teens and they're they're wanting more freedom, or you know you're clashing. You know, how are you stepping into the? How are you stepping into those moments? Are you, are you reacting? Are you? Are you triggered? Are you? You know?
Holly Swenson:So those moments are opportunities to you know, say, like, take a deep breath, um, pause before you open your mouth, because it's hard when, when you're being triggered, triggered and you start to dysregulate yourself. So I like to me that's what's coming to mind as an opportunity to be the leader, to practice your calm, because I think that that's actually far harder than it is to be triggered and kind of get sucked into their meltdown or whatever crisis they're feeling in that moment. So to me, that's a great opportunity to be more intentional with how you're leading and how you're role modeling.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, because then you have to go back and do repair work. Absolutely yeah, and that's a lot harder than taking a few extra seconds at the front end of that conversation to regulate yourself, so that then you can co-regulate with your child.
Holly Swenson:And this is a perfect segue because the third right is the right use of speech with your child. And this is a perfect segue because the third right is the right use of speech and, um, you know, I often will say that your voice is a tool of creation, um, and so you really have the power to uplift or tear down, uh, and I think that this can be one of the toughest rights to implement. Um, so you want to speak with mindfulness and if you forget, you want to apologize. Like I really believe in the power of apology.
Holly Swenson:I think that it's something that should be part of everyone's practice because, as awesome of a job as you might be doing, you're going to have moments, you're going to have days, you're going to have times that you need to make amends and you need to repair, whether it's with your kids or other family members. It's just an important thing to have in your back pocket, to pull out and use, to uh, to repair anything that might need a reparation. Uh, and the reality is that we're all, we're all human. You know we're not, we're not perfect. So, um, remembering to apologize when it's appropriate.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, I think that sends a really strong message to your child that you love them enough to be vulnerable in the moment to walk it back. And then, what a great way to model what it looks like to walk back those words, where, if we're being intentional in the first place, hopefully those hurtful words don't come out in the first place. But, like you said, we are human and we do get triggered or we do get dysregulated, and sometimes things just come flying out of our mouth because it's what, it's the first thing that pops into our mind, right, and so we say it without thinking of the consequences that those words could have. And so to be able to go, oh, I really wish I hadn't said that. I'm so sorry, you know, this is, this is how I really want this conversation to to go.
Holly Swenson:That's right? Absolutely no, and I think you have different things that impact the way you feel, too, and the way you show up. You know, like, did you get enough sleep? How maxed out are you at work, or you know, or the home front, you know. So you have a lot of things that can impact the way you show up. So be you know, practice, grace with yourself too.
Holly Swenson:The fourth right is the right use of power, and I think that you really want to wield your power with care. You're the one responsible for setting boundaries, discipline, and you ultimately have the final say on, you know, issues that are going to arise. You know, during those 18 years, that you're blessed to have your kids under your roof. So I think it's important to not abuse this power and be intentional in the framework that you set for your child. So this one, again, is just making sure that you are, you're stepping into the power that you carry as a parent with, with love, with intentionality, which we've already kind of spoke about, but that you are, that you're mindful of how you're, how you're, you're, you know, you disciplining and boundary setting.
Dr. Amy Moore:And so what does that abuse of power as a parent look like? What does it sound like?
Holly Swenson:Well, I just I think when you are, you know we kind of just spoke about like dysregulating if you are not able to control your emotional state and you're taking it too far and parents know what that you know like.
Holly Swenson:If you are, you know if you're yelling a lot, if you're, you know, feeling like you have to be physical, that like those are major red flags to like whoa, you need to like slow down, take a step back and and check yourself, and so I think you know, or if you feel like you're just being triggered like nonstop, you know you need to check in and maybe you get professional help, maybe you seek somebody who can help you have some, some parenting skills so that when you are in those moments that feel really overwhelming, moments that feel really overwhelming, you have some tools to help you navigate those moments with a little more calm and a little more compassion.
Holly Swenson:You know, because it's hard, like I said, it's hard, I think, as a parent, when you are tasked with you're raising another human being, right, and you have a lot of asks thrown on top of it. So so I think, for people, parents are just overwhelmed. I think so many parents are overwhelmed and they're stressed, and that's where I think people don't always show up the way they mean to, and so it's checking yourself, it's having cultivating more self-awareness of like, wow, I really haven't been showing up. In a way, that's very nice. How can I shift gears and and and change this?
Dr. Amy Moore:How can I shift gears and change this? Do you think that that power differential between parent and child has changed in the last generation? You know, when we think back to our parents' generation, right, the parent was in charge, right, and so the child did what the parent said. But then I saw this pendulum swing in the exact opposite direction, where parents then decided well, I'm going to be best friends with my child and so we're going to just be partners in this process. And it's my opinion that that pendulum swung too far into that direction, because ultimately, the parent is the adult. The parent is the one that needs to coach and mentor and guide. And so how do you find that happy middle somewhere between wearing the t-shirt that says because I said so or because I'm the parent or the anything goes approach, because I want my child to be my best friend.
Holly Swenson:Yeah, no, I think you bring up a really good point and I think you know you're absolutely right. It was very much a top-down approach and then you know, I think the reality is you need to strike a balance Like I'm really into balance, and so I definitely think being your child's best friend is also not the best approach. I think they need a parent, they need boundaries, they need guidelines. They're going through a lot of changes and they need somebody who is there to be not their best friend, but to be like a guiding light. I also believe in collaboration, though, and I do think that you should make time to hear your child out. So I think that it's. It's really about finding more harmony in your home. It's not about having it be whatever your kids want it to be is my, my feeling.
Holly Swenson:I think that they do need that structure, and structure actually gives them more calm in their life, because you know you know as you know, you know youngsters or teens or whatever they need they need that support. They need somebody who can help kind of guide them along, but not be so heavy handed that it crushes their spirit. So I think it's it's hearing you know, like you know, maybe it's. Maybe it's sports, you know, like if, if you know you're doing baseball because I said so, like that might not be the best way to navigate that, like ask your child, you know what sport are you into and maybe it's not sports at all, but but you know so.
Holly Swenson:So hear what your child wants to do, where their passions lie. It's not a permission slip to like get out of doing whatever you know doing nothing, but I think it's also an opportunity to to get to know your child, to help support them and say you know I want, you know you know you need to, you need to partner with things in life that will help you stay healthy and fit. Or, you know, maybe it's art, maybe whatever it is helping them have some ownership of activities. Like that's just an example, you know. I think that's a great place to start of giving them more of a say, but not the final say, on you know, some of the bigger issues of giving them more of a say, but not the final say on you know some of the bigger issues.
Sandy Zamalis:So I kind of feel like both ends of those spectrums have the same like root issue, which is inability to deal with conflict. Right, you're dealing it with with power, or you're dealing with it by just avoiding it altogether. And so, dr Amy, maybe you want to chime in on this too what would be your recommendations, both of you, for helping someone learn how to manage conflict? Because that, I think, is kind of the root of the issue, because wherever you are, you feel out of control. So here you are presented with a conflict that you're not sure quite how to manage it or handle it, so you're going to swing one way or the other. What are some tools or recommendations that both of you would have for dealing with conflict?
Dr. Amy Moore:I'll let you go first, Holly.
Holly Swenson:Well, I think, for me, I, what I will share is, you know, I created a framework to help people. I think you know whether it's conflict or just you know more self-awareness. But my Stop, drop, grow and Glow framework, really I think you know whether it's conflict or just you know more self-awareness, but my stop, drop, grow and grow and glow framework, really I think helps people to find more balance in their life. And so, whether you're dealing with extremes, which I think a lot of people are, you're kind of in one extreme category or the other, like bringing it all back to the mid, the midline, because I think that's where you find more happiness, more joy, more wellness.
Holly Swenson:I think when you're living in extreme states, it's just, it's exhausting and you you end up living in fight or flight.
Holly Swenson:That you know that mode of like, you're just chronically stressed, and when you're in that space, you you face burnout and it's stressful to you, it's also stressful to your children.
Holly Swenson:So so for me, I always say, like you know, not to go through all of my, my framework points, but like for for stop, it's really stopping and doing some self-assessment and reflection on where you are today, doing some internal gazing on things that are going well as well as things that aren't, and I think, just cultivating that self-awareness, that curiosity and consciousness on your journey of you know how your parenting life is going, how your personal life is going, because I also think it's really important that you nurture both just because you become a parent doesn't mean you shouldn't take care of who you are as an individual.
Holly Swenson:And the reality is, when you care for both of those in terms of like, whether you're dealing with conflict or extremes, if you you can, if you can tend to your whole self in a way that's intentional, I think some of that extreme stuff that you mentioned will start to soften yeah, I love, I love everything that you just said, and I think we could probably do a whole episode on your question, sandy and I, because it was sorry, because it was a phenomenal question, and so I think that we have to look at what is that fear stemming from?
Dr. Amy Moore:Is that fear of conflict, this fear that if I push back, will my child not love me? Because a lot of times that happens. And so then I think it all begins with us. It begins with our ability to regulate our emotions. It begins with our ability to take care of our physical needs, and I think Holly talks about this in her book, you know, about the importance of sleep, about the importance of self-care, about the importance of hormones, and and maybe we can talk about some of that, you know, in a couple of minutes.
Dr. Amy Moore:So I think it starts with us. And then I think that we have to remember that discipline comes from the word disciple, which means to teach, and so discipline does not mean punish. Discipline does not mean impose a negative consequence every time your child makes a mistake. It means to teach and guide. And so, if we can stop putting the problem in between us, the problem in between parent and child and instead come alongside our child and say hey, this is a problem that we need to solve. Let's talk about how we can do that, because if we don't, then they're not going to learn how to problem solve later on, when we're not standing next to them.
Holly Swenson:Absolutely. I love what you have to say too. I think. I think it's right on and I love that, you know, I think also the imagery of really guiding your child, like hand in hand you're, you're walking this journey together, but you do need to be that guiding light. You have to kind of have that presence for them so they know that you've got them, that they're not leading the helm, you know. They need that, I think, that presence. So I love what you have to say as well.
Sandy Zamalis:Holly, I think that's a good segue into your fifth right, so let's jump in on that one.
Holly Swenson:Yeah, let's wrap it. So the fifth right is the right use of love, and this is by far my favorite right. I think that love is the cure for all that ails us parenting and beyond and so I think this right should be used as many times a day, as you can aspire to.
Holly Swenson:You know, letting your child know how much you love them and are there for them will really just help them grow and thrive as human beings. So you want to give your love freely and without expectation. I think that your child will likely mirror that love that you give them. But even if they don't, as they get older, you know, maybe during the teen years, um, that love is being felt and it is being received. Even if it's not always being returned in the way you hope it might be, it's making a difference. So, um, I think that you want to lean on love as much as possible.
Dr. Amy Moore:I love that. So I actually have a sign behind me. I know most if you're not listening. If you're listening, you can't see it, but anyway it says love you more. And it's about you know, a five inch by three inch sign on my bookshelf. Well, my youngest bought this for me because I put a very large version of this on his wall when he was super young and so and we constantly had the I love you more, no, I love you more, kind of fun conversation, you know as much as we could. And then at 16, he actually bought me my own version. So when you said, sometimes your child will mirror that expression, that's exactly what I saw, you know happen in my relationship and I think that even if we're uncomfortable expressing that in the beginning, we create new neural pathways. The more times we share it, the more times we say it, and then it becomes comfortable and it becomes natural right.
Holly Swenson:Totally. I love that story, that's so sweet.
Sandy Zamalis:So, holly, let's take a quick back step into that intent.
Sandy Zamalis:Right In your book, in the stop section of your book, you talk about that reaction versus response and you and you kind of alluded to it a little bit, but you also took the opportunity to then also address divorce and just that reactionary cycle, that cycle of dysfunction. Let's step into that a little bit, because that reactivity, that reaction, can become a way of life. And I, you know, I it's interesting to me that you're a nurse and you have a nurse nursing background. I have a lot of nursing friends and a lot of them have gotten into the like some sort of mindfulness or something, and I think it stems from that nursing as well, because a lot of it is reactionary, it's kind of takes over. And then my friends I don't know if this has been your experience, holly, but my friends experienced burnout and so they had to do a lot of recovery to get out of that reactionary cycle. So let's talk about that a little bit from that divorce perspective and that cycle of dysfunction and kind of how to help guide through that.
Holly Swenson:Yeah, well, I mean, I think you know divorce is something that a lot of people experience A lot of. A lot of couples are going through a lot of children are are living through I was the child of divorce, you know, and so it's a very prevalent issue in our, our country and in our world. And I really wanted to speak to this because I think so many people are living in a reactionary state, whether you're married or not. I mean, we're not taught how to be responsive, we're taught, we're taught really to be reactionary, and I think it's really doing us a disservice, um, as a collective um, and and in marriages, uh, you know, in life, um, because you're not regulating, you know you're, we're kind of just thinking about ourselves all the time and we're not really thinking necessarily about, you know, we're not always thinking about how that's landing for somebody else, and so I think there's a huge, there's a huge difference between reaction, response, and learning to distinguish between the two is going to help you navigate life, whether it's parenthood or if you're navigating divorce, or hopefully you can, you know, make healthy changes that might prevent you walking down that path of divorce, right, you know? And if you are going through that, that maybe you can weave some more consciousness into that so that you know you know the famous saying of the unconscious what is it? Conscious uncoupling. You know where you really are. Just you're more thoughtful with how you are unraveling your relationship. So if that's what you're faced with, that you're doing it with more care so that you're. I think it feels better for both of you, the mother, the father, the whoever, whoever's in the in the relationship. But it also feels better for the children because they're, they're seeing parents who can regulate their emotions and and work on difficult life moments with with more, with more compassion. And so I think, ultimately, when you can respond in life, it's going to make a huge difference.
Holly Swenson:And I think, if you don't mind, I would love to kind of distinguish between reaction and response. Yes, please, just to make it a little more clear. So with reaction, it's instinctual, so it's an easy thing to ignite when you're raising your kids. It's what's waiting. You know kids and with divorce, it's what's there waiting for you, and I think it's an easy go-to.
Holly Swenson:And so the problem with reaction is that it's typically not thought out or really very helpful when it comes to redirecting what's in front of you. It's immediate, it's not mindful. You're oftentimes shooting right back to your. You know your child or your spouse. You know what they're offering you, and so the reality is that you, you get to make a decision on whether or not you join in their emotional tornado. So I think that when you can rise above, when you can maintain your calm and not join you, you're creating a softer place to land for yourself. It's good for you and it's actually good for them too.
Holly Swenson:So I think the problem is that parents or spouses don't always have a luxury to really think about how to optimally reply to a request and action. If you're both stressed and in that moment of feeling overwhelmed, you know people are saying things they don't really mean, or they're setting consequences or they're, you know, kind of flying off the handle. So if your typical approach is is you're kind of reacting all over the place, you know, try to get quiet. If it's with your kid, maybe give them a hug, if the situation allows and is appropriate. You know. If it's with your spouse, you know maybe just look them in the eye and say I'm really sorry. You know, can we, can we try that again? You know, and and I just think, extending some humanity. I think we aren't extending enough humanity to each other and I think there's room for improvement there.
Holly Swenson:And then, when we're talking about response, response is really more considerate and thoughtful in nature.
Holly Swenson:So you're stopping, you're processing before you're opening your mouth, and this is a game changer.
Holly Swenson:You know, response takes more work, it takes more patience, I think, both with yourself and with your, your children or your spouse. But when you remember to respond, it's, it's allowing you to process, remembering your manners, your intention and your leadership skills, whether it's, you know again, as a parent or with your spouse. And I think that you know to kind of wrap this, it's like responding allows you to move forward in a healthy and dynamic way. You're improving your social skills, you're allowing for more self-awareness, self-regulation and empathy. And so you, you know you're really going to deepen your connection with all family members, and I just think you know you're really going to deepen your connection with your, with all family members, and I just think that there's a huge win when you can remember to respond, you know, and make try to make reparations instead of division. We need, we need to just, I think, extend that humanity and take better care of each other is what it comes down to and take better care of each other is what it comes down to.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, I really love that explanation. You know I work with couples as a counselor and so you know talk a lot about the importance of curiosity and compassion and grace and flexibility, and so I think that you know, going back to the conversation we had earlier about repairing, when we have reacted, when we have said things that we didn't mean to say or because we weren't intentional in our responses, that we can go back and say I really wish I hadn't said that, I'm so sorry that I said it that way. Can we talk about this? Hey, again, this problem, let's not put it between us, let's solve it together. I think if we took that approach with every relationship, then we would have less repair work to do, because our relationships would be stronger and more loving and caring and warm and compassionate. Maybe we wouldn't see as much divorce. Maybe we wouldn't see as much dissension between parents and children. Maybe we wouldn't see as much divorce. Maybe we wouldn't see as much dissension between parents and children. We maybe wouldn't rupture as many friendships.
Holly Swenson:Absolutely 100% yeah.
Sandy Zamalis:Do you guys have phrases or um things that you would recommend practicing? Saying um, for example, uh, if your kids come and they've triggered something with you, do you recommend just pausing before you speak? Is there a phrase that you might use to say, like you know what? I think I need to think about that for a second. I'll get back to you in five minutes. You know just something so that you can break this reactionary cycle just something so that you could break this reactionary cycle.
Holly Swenson:So one thing that I I talk about my book is, um, what I loved my, when my kids were little, they watched, uh, they watched something called Daniel tiger um, daniel tiger's neighborhood, I think, is what it was titled, and there's a phrase in there that I just absolutely loved, um. And it says when you feel so mad that you want to roar, take a deep breath and count to four. And what I liked about that is it's like it can apply to you as a parent, or you can share that with your kids because it's applicable to them and it resonates. And so I, you know, I think that it's just a healthy thing to remember. Like, oh, wow, that really brought you know, you're feeling fire in your belly. Like pause, that's like your first, like red flag of, like okay, I need to, I need to stop for just a second before I step into whatever's right in front of me. So I think that's that's where I'll go with that one.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, and I think that, again, getting back to mindfulness and breathing exercises and grounding exercises, and when those have become part of our daily rituals and we recognize the need to use those and we teach our kids to use those. You know, I think I shared this example a few episodes ago, but you know I've taught my kids how to vibrate their vagus nerve when they've become dysregulated, you know, by exhaling while saying the word voo, so it's we call it voo breathing. Anyway, I was visibly dysregulated a few weeks ago and my 19 year old walked past me and he went hey, mom, right, like he just prompted me, right, like you've got to press the brakes on that. You know, sympathetic nervous system, fight, flight or freeze response. When we give our kids those tools as part of our daily activities and our daily interactions and part of our discipling and teaching them, you know how do you manage those big emotions? Then I think they mirror that. Was that the question? I think I got off track there.
Sandy Zamalis:No, that was good. My favorite one it's a Chris Voss one. I don't know if either of you have read Chris Voss at all, but he has a book called Never Split the Difference. But his favorite tactic when he would deal with kidnapping like kidnapping situations or something that, with something like that he would use the late night DJ voice and it actually works really well in all scenarios because it hits the vagus nerve. It gets you in that lower tone and so you have to just really get low with your voice, but it's calming to you. So, like whenever I'm in a situation where I feel like the energy is ratcheted up and I'm getting a little too agitated, if I can tap into that late night DJ voice I can mirror the calm that I want and I usually get that back, which has been really helpful for me.
Dr. Amy Moore:I love that, yeah, and so there there's this brilliant psychologist, dr Teg McBride, who actually trained me in stress management for military actually, so I led stress management workshops for military. Anyway, he talked about the power, some self-talk phrase like you're saying, sandy, then we can lower the temperature on a potential reaction, and so that's the one that I've always used and then continue to teach. Few things in life are terrible, horrible or awful. Most are just uncomfortable or inconvenient.
Holly Swenson:I really like that. I also think, too, like for me, like what's coming up when you say that is like you know, when you have these hard moments, I always like remind myself that those obstacles or those challenging things that are showing up in your life are really your teachers. So I think when you can partner with them and make them your ally, it really can help you to grow. And I, you know, and the other, like famous phrase of like, the only way around is through. You know. So, getting through these, like you know, intense periods in life, you know, whether it's parenting or work or whatever it is, I think you can remind yourself like you're, you're exactly where you're meant to be, and and and whether you're being faced with something that feels joyful or challenging, just keep going. You know, right through whatever it is you're being asked to do For me, that helps me in, you know, no matter what I'm faced with, but especially those challenging moments in life.
Dr. Amy Moore:Exactly All right, so we need to take a break. Let Sandy read a word from our sponsor, and when we come back, I want to talk a little bit about self-care and how we can work on some strategies for infusing that into our daily routines as moms when we come back.
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Dr. Amy Moore:Okay, so we are continuing our conversation with Holly Swenson. And so, holly, you talk about the importance of self-care for moms and that can be a term that really creates anxiety and stress to hear for some moms right, I don't have time for self-care, I'm trying to raise three or four kids, I'm busy, I'm working right. Three or four kids, I'm busy, I'm working Right. So self-care, right, the thought of trying to take care of yourself creates more stress and the bigger need to take care of yourself. But you talk about in your book that it doesn't have to be this big. You know monthly ordeal, that you know there are ways to integrate self-care in our daily routines. Could you share a few of those ideas?
Holly Swenson:Absolutely so.
Holly Swenson:Self-care. I daily routines. Could you share a few of those ideas? Absolutely so, self-care I think that's one of the biggest things that I learned as a parent, that I have to make time for, and I make time for self-care every day, and I think this is what I encourage other people to consider. And it can be five minutes. Maybe you're only giving yourself five minutes a day, but when you make time to take care of your heart and your wellness, you know whether it's, whether it's breathing, maybe it's. You know, if you're like one of those parents who says you don't have any time, you know maybe it's after you drop your kids off at school and you're sitting in your car and you just have a minute to like breathe, get intentional, just sit there and give yourself a minute to reset. You know, but? But I think what I, what I would also encourage for parents and for people who are feeling too busy and too swamped to take self-care on is is microdose your self-care and that's, and so what I mean by that is do lots of.
Holly Swenson:I like to get up in the morning and, um, you know, I have a meditation practice, so I like to sit for maybe it's, maybe it's five, five to 20 minutes, depending on what my morning is looking like. Maybe it's longer on other days, but I'll give myself that time to kind of get grounded, to feel grateful, to just practice, um, kind of calming my, my system. And then I'll get up and, you know, maybe I'm making breakfast for the kids and I'll put some calm music on. So you can, you can, you can add music, you can add aromatherapy, um, when you drink your tea or coffee, whatever you like, you know, make that feel like a ritual, like something you're giving yourself. Um, uh, you know, and, and so I think self-care it doesn't just have to be getting a massage once a month or once every six months. I think there's this element of selfishness that has been attached to self-care that we need to unravel, because the reality is, when you take care of yourself, you're going to be much better able to serve others in your life. And so, truly, if you hear nothing else that I say today, self-care is like the most important thing you can do for yourself, and, and it doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be long, but you have to do something to take care of yourself. And I also think I, you know, I think of self-care in different ways, besides just the traditional, I think, ways that people think of self-care.
Holly Swenson:I mean I talk about, like continuing to dream, like that is a form of self-care. Using humor in your life, continuing to learn, getting in the water, date nights, you know, maybe with your significant other, like those are all forms. Maybe it's calling a friend you haven't talked to in a long time. There are lots of different ways to practice self-care and and so I think when you start to think about that, activate it. Maybe it's an out quotes. You could have quotes on your fridge, something that, when you see it, triggers some like a feel good. You know something that makes you feel good, it makes you feel supported in your everyday. So micro dose your wellness. That that's what I would, that's what I would say to to people who feel too busy. Micro dose your wellness.
Sandy Zamalis:That that's what I would. That's what I would say to people who feel too busy. I love that term. Yeah, On your Instagram you had actually I think it was your Instagram you had even talked about play, like incorporating play, and how important that is as self-care, and I love that too.
Holly Swenson:Yeah, and so there's yeah. Just I would say think big, think broad and start small.
Dr. Amy Moore:Don overwhelm yourself and I think that, like if we can learn um the importance of being fully present, um and mindful, then it becomes a form of self-care, for me at least I, when I hold my hot mug of coffee in the morning and can think about that tactile experience, what that feels like to warm my hands simply by holding that warm mug of coffee, that to me is a form of self-care, right. Choosing what tea I'm going to have at bedtime, right, is a form of self-care, right, because then I can smell it again. That warm mug I'm going to have at bedtime, right, is a form of self-care, right, because then I can smell it again, that warm mug. I'm really tactile. So to hold that warm mug in the evening, it's kind of like I bookend my day, right. Warm mug of coffee in the morning, warm mug of tea in the evening to me feels like I've cared for myself.
Holly Swenson:Yes, 100%, yeah, and that's it. Yeah, and, like I said, it can be simple. It can be putting oil on your feet before you go to bed. You know just small little things, but when you take care of yourself in that way, it makes a huge difference in how you feel. I love that.
Sandy Zamalis:Holly, we're getting close to the end of time, so what have you not gotten to share today that you would like to leave our listeners with?
Holly Swenson:You know, I think that I will just say making time. You know, we just spoke about self-care and like that is like one of my biggest things I want to drive home to, to parents everywhere and people. I mean, I think, whether you're a parent or not, self-care is something that we do leave out so much. And you look at the rates of depression, anxiety that are prevalent in our country, and so I think, for me, I think you have to ask yourself, you know, do I want to live with intention? Do I want to live with joy? Do I want to live with wellness? You know this is a conscious choice you make daily. You know you're the one responsible for navigating your life and you know this is ultimately on you. So I think you have to own it and work for it and be grateful every day. You know being here and being alive is a gift and you have to prioritize your wellness to truly thrive.
Dr. Amy Moore:I think that's where I'll wrap. I love that, holly Swenson, thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your knowledge and experience with our listeners. Listeners, you can reach Holly at liveyourglowlive. She's on Instagram at Holly Swenson underscore liveyourglow, and actually if you visit her website, you can sign up for her newsletter and read her blog, and then, of course, we'll put a link to get her book as well in the show notes. So thank you so much for listening today.
Dr. Amy Moore:If you like us, we would love it if you would find us on social media. We are at the brainy moms on every social media platform. Do that now, before you forget. If you liked our show, we would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts so we can reach more smart parents like you. If you'd rather see our faces, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at the Brainy Moms. And if you want to see more of Sandy and see what cognitive training looks like learn more about learning struggles and how cognitive skills training can help with that you can find her on TikTok at thebraintrainerlady. That is all the smart stuff that we have for you today, so we're going to catch you next time.
