Brainy Moms
Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast with smart ideas to help moms and kids thrive! Hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore along with rotating co-hosts Sandy Zamalis, Teri Miller, and Dr. Jody Jedlicka, this weekly show features conversations and guest experts in parenting, psychology, child development, education, and medicine with practical tips to help moms navigate the ups and downs of parenthood. We're smart moms helping make moms smarter...one episode at a time!
Brainy Moms
Sensory Processing Differences and Difficulties: Tools for Parents with guest Dr. Eva Lassey
Ever felt overwhelmed by the sheer range of sensory experiences your child navigates daily? On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy discuss the world of sensory processing with Dr. Eva Lassey, a doctor of physical therapy and the visionary behind Dr. Sensory. Through her personal and professional journey, Dr. Lassey breaks down the often-confusing landscape of sensory processing disorders, helping us discern between sensory seekers and avoiders. Her insights equip parents and caregivers with the tools needed to support and understand their children’s unique sensory needs, challenging traditional perceptions of neurodiversity and the idea of "normal."
Join us as we explore the impact of sensory processing issues on motor skills development and social interactions in children. Dr. Lassey shares practical strategies for fostering physical development through simple, engaging activities that can easily be incorporated into everyday routines. From bear walks to crab crawls, we talk about the crucial role of movement and play, especially in an age where technology sometimes hinders our children's physical growth. Learn how the right balance of core strength, coordination, and active play can transform a child's confidence and ability to connect with peers.
Finally, we discuss the benefits of sensory tools and fidget toys in managing focus and anxiety, featuring insights from experts like neuroscientist Dr. Christina Ledbetter. Whether it’s weighted blankets or chewable necklaces, these tools offer emotional comfort and can ground the mind, enhancing concentration, and providing a sense of calm. Dr. Lassey emphasizes the importance of trial and error to find the perfect fit for individual sensory needs, illustrating how these aids can create a supportive environment for children and adults alike. Our episode concludes with a heartfelt discussion on gratitude and the ongoing journey of supporting families in navigating sensory challenges.
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Hi smart moms and dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, brought to you today by LearningRx Brain Training Centers. I'm Dr Amy Moore, I'm joined by Sandy Zimalis, and if you guys have to leave early, be sure to visit thebrainymomscom for all the smart stuff you missed. Sandy and I are super excited to bring you a conversation with our guest today, dr Eva Lassie. Super excited to bring you a conversation with our guest today, dr Eva Lassie. Eva is a doctor of physical therapy and the founder of Dr Sensory, a platform that serves as your go-to place for all things sensory processing. With experience in various PT settings, eva now has a special focus on helping children, particularly those with sensory processing difficulties. We have actually never had an episode on sensory processing issues and we have actually never had an episode on sensory processing issues and we've had requests for an episode on sensory processing issues, so we are thrilled to welcome you to our show today, dr Eva Lassie.
Dr. Eva:Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited about this episode. We are too.
Sandy:We like to start every episode by asking our guests to share why they chose to focus on their specific field. So let's start there. What makes you so passionate about sensory processing issues as a physical therapist?
Dr. Eva:So I feel like this has started way before becoming a mom or even a physical therapist. So I grew up in a family of 11 children and seeing the chaos that that brings, but also seeing kind of like the upbringing of everyone, it kind of fueled my passion to go into physical therapy, and with physical therapy what I could do is I could then focus where I wanted to focus, and that was children. So as moms, we all know how children can be and sometimes you meet, like other moms, with other children who are completely different than yours, and so you're kind of trying to figure out like, okay, why is this one so different, or why is this one doing things this way, or why is this mom saying that this child is just needing so much more? And this kind of fueled my passion into doing my own research, and so I started to dive so much deeper into sensory integration and sensory processing disorders and this even led down a path towards, like autism and ADHD. There's so much that entails like a child and what they're bringing to the table and who they are as a person and what they need, that this is where it all started.
Dr. Eva:And then adding a layer after physical therapy, of becoming a mom and seeing things firsthand that you didn't expect children to do. You're like why is he doing this? Why is he jumping off of the coffee table onto the couch? What is he doing? Or they want me to throw them onto the couch really, really hard, as playfully, obviously. But you're like why are these things happening? And that, as a medical professional that leans towards research and leans towards always continuing to learn, I was like okay, this is what I want to learn. This is I want to learn more, and it's not just to help myself and my parenting journey, but it's also to help. Like the everyday parent, I want to be able to use the knowledge that I gain and learn to also help other moms, and so this is something I'm super passionate about and I'm so excited to share about.
Dr. Amy:All right. Well, we have so much to talk about, but let's start with some basics. Can you spend just a few minutes kind of defining what sensory processing issues are? What sensory processing disorder? How is that different from sensory integration? Talk a little bit about just the basics here. And then, how would parents know if their child was struggling with some of this?
Dr. Eva:Okay. So to begin with this sensory processing disorder, the research is still coming out. This is something that's brand new if you were to look at the medical field and time, where research has not been there before, so I feel like we're on the forefront. This is exactly what we should be talking about, because parents are noticing it more and obviously it might be due to recent changes in technology, like this is all new, so you'll notice kids kind of having an effect from that. But sensory processing disorder when we look at that, what we're looking at is children who are different in the way they process sensory information, but also like perceive it and then how they try to seek out what they need. So the differences are a lot of children. It's obviously a wide spectrum. It's almost like you need to find where your child is With sensory processing. They're receiving information, their brain is processing what they're learning and then they're coping with that in different ways. So you'll see, like children having outbursts, or you'll see children seeking a place to hide because they need to get away from all of that information. So this is where it's so important to figure out where on the levels is your child in sensory processing. So if they're not able to regulate all of that information coming in, you can help them. You can help them by figuring out where they are on the level of whether they're a sensory seeker or a sensory avoider. So I can go into a little bit more detail about each of those.
Dr. Eva:Okay, yeah, so with sensory avoiding, what these children? Typically? They avoid movement. So, for example, they're not going to like being on that swing. They're not going to like spinning around. They're not going to like being thrown up into the air, as parents love to do with their children. They're not going to like those because they really prefer those more stable and more predictable movements. They don't want the chaos that that brings on in their sensory system.
Dr. Eva:Right, you also find that they may be sensitive more to touch. So, for example, they may find certain textures that they don't like. They'll actually find them sometimes very intolerable. So, like simple things, even like a tag on a shirt or the texture of a shirt. Like it'll be complete chaos putting on a sweater, as my morning went this morning, putting on a sweater onto a child that they don't like the material, they become this whole new being. You're like who are you? But that's just how they're processing it. And so, with sensory avoiding, they'll also dislike loud noises. They're not going to like that like walking into a loud grocery store where it's chaos all around, there's so many things happening, or just maybe even like Disneyland, like that's too much for them.
Dr. Eva:And so finding strategies to help those children for example, it could be very simple earplugs or even like noise canceling headphones, something that you can teach them the strategy they need to wean their body back from all of that sensory input that they're receiving. And then another thing would be avoiding bright lights. So kids with sensory avoiding, they really don't like those bright lights, they want dim, lit lighting, and so a strategy that you can do is avoid bright, flickering things, avoid toys that have all of that flash on them, or you can even just have them wear sunglasses. A lot of the time this was even my son months ago, a few months ago, where he would put on his sunglasses and come indoors and everyone was like, oh, he must be the cool kid. I was like, no, your house is just really bright. But seeking those strategies to be like, no, he wants to wear his sunglasses, that's okay. But like seeking those strategies to be like, no, he wants to wear sunglasses. That's okay, it's just too bright in here. And then you have your sensory seeking behaviors.
Dr. Eva:So these children love movement. I mean they'll be the ones that make throw me up. Throw me up, they'll be like spin me around. They're going to crave that sensation of fast and intense, that just thrill seeking, so to say. They love touch, they crave it. They want that sensory input. They feel like that. They're just drawn towards it. They're drawn towards different materials. They experiment.
Dr. Eva:These kids might be the ones in the dirt playing with their trucks or just feeling the different things that they want. They want that input that they need more of, if that makes sense. Like their levels are just turned down a little bit. They need a little bit more Loud noises. For these kids is that they prefer it, they like it. They'll turn up the music. If they sit with you in the front seat for a minute to play, they'll be like, yeah, I love this. Or they'll make very loud noises when they play.
Dr. Eva:So these are the moms that are like, oh my gosh, my son in the next room. He's just so loud, I'm so sorry. Like they're apologizing for this behavior, where I'm like that's what they need, that's okay, like there's things, strategies that parents can do to be like okay, let's give them a space where they can be loud and that's okay. That is what they need. Vibrant taste, and these kids love trying new foods. They're like oh yeah, I'll try that, like yogurt on my fingers, love that, spicy foods, love that. They're just seeking bright lights, the bold colors, the flashing toys. So if a mom tells you oh, my son is very like, he loves that kind of stuff, he loves jumping, spinning, he'll love the bright lights. So you can cater your toys for that mom, or the mom can cater it towards the child in that way.
Dr. Amy:Okay. So I have a ton of thoughts and I kind of there's so much there, all right. Okay, so I have a ton of thoughts and I kind of there's so much there, all right. So, first of all, when you were talking about people who are sensory avoidant, you described me to a T. I mean, like, really, you just read my mail, told my life story, so it's just fascinating. But my first question is what I heard you say was hey, if your child appears to be avoiding a lot of sensory input, here are some things you can do If your child really likes extrasensory experiences. Here's what you can do two different ways that children and adults experience sensory input and they're not abnormal. Or are you saying, yes, these are abnormal when you're on either extreme, this is pathological, so we have to accommodate it. Which are you saying?
Dr. Eva:I am not saying that it is not normal. So, for example, every child is unique, so there is none of any child that is not quote unquote normal. So everybody is just different. So when I say like this is what you are catering towards, you're not catering towards the diagnosis at all. You're catering towards your child, and so this, for example, this may describe you, but it does not make you any different than someone who's completely on the other side of that. That level of sensory input that they receive.
Dr. Eva:I feel like, as time has come on and technology has come out and kids are getting so much more in their faith that they're coping with it in different ways. For example, screen time, that can have a huge impact on someone. They could want to avoid it. So that doesn't make them not normal, it just means that they need some way to cope with it. Does that kind of make sense? It's not an extreme this or that. It's just I prefer this and I prefer this or I prefer this. It's more of a preference of what do you like and what do you not like and what do you need less or more of.
Dr. Amy:Okay, I love that, because I am not a fan of the term neurodivergent, because, as a cognitive psychologist, I view brains like thumbprints and so, even though structurally they're very similar, we know where to find each part of the brain in every single brain. For the most part, unless there's been an injury injury the connectivity is a little bit different, based on experiences and based on nature. So what I'm hearing you say is that we aren't calling kids and adults who are sensory avoidant or sensory seeking as neurodivergent. You're actually describing it exactly the same way, right? We all sort of fall somewhere on this spectrum of how we prefer to process sensory input.
Dr. Eva:Exactly. I feel like that term, neurodivergent has become such a commonly used word because they don't know how else to describe it. They see it as this odd topic, this odd thing that's just coming out, and they're not realizing that. No, that's actually a way to describe people who have different sensations that they need to process, and that you're actually on that too. You're not like neurodivergent. It's such a category that people tend to place others in, and that, to me, is not okay. I feel like each human has a space in our community, in our world, and they just prefer what they prefer and they don't prefer what they don't, but that doesn't make them any different from anyone else.
Sandy:That's so funny that you said that, because I have the same like visceral reaction to neurotypical Like. I hate that word because it makes it sound like there's this like group of people out there that are normal. And no, there's always the spectrum. I agree, amy. You know our brains are like thumbprints. You know we are uniquely and wonderfully made, so it's just fascinating that we've ended up in this weird like what bucket, what camp are you in?
Dr. Amy:I mean, and, Sandy, you've you've seen my presentations on ADHD, and so I show a lot of neuroimaging of an ADHD brain and I will compare it to brains without ADHD. So it doesn't. I don't label it a normal brain or a typical brain or a neurotypical brain. The labels on my slides say ADHD, not ADHD. Right, Because there is no such thing as normal or typical. I mean, we all have some variation of processing and so I think to categorize someone as normal is odd.
Dr. Eva:You know, what blows my mind is, if you look on social media, these individuals who have felt almost outcasted in ways as they were growing up, they've almost adopted this as a pride title, and that breaks my heart, because this is their way of saying I'm different and this is why, whereas instead, no, you're normal. What do you like and what do you not like, and what does your body need and what does your brain need, and how do you process things? And like how are you as a person, and not like I don't feel normal and so I must not be normal. Like that breaks my heart for humans because they diminish themselves and then they don't feel they have a space to talk, or it's just it breaks my heart, it really does.
Dr. Amy:Yeah, I get it Okay. So do you see sensory processing issues more in kids and adults that also have a diagnosis of something else, like ADHD or autism, or do you see sensory processing struggles in kids who don't have a dual diagnosis?
Dr. Eva:So this is an interesting question because kids who already have a diagnosis, they usually find themselves on this spectrum of sensory avoiding versus sensory seeking. Most of the time they land right there like oh, that's me, or that's me. And personally, having ADHD myself, I know I'm like, okay, I land here too. But I would not say that every person with a sensory processing difference, where there's somewhere on that spectrum, I would not say that all of them have a diagnosis or would be matched with like a DSM like diagnosis, like they wouldn't be matched with that and so they don't have that, but they could still have a layer of sensory avoiding for sensory seeking and need those sensory integration strategies to kind of help them out. So it's yes, if you're autistic or you do have ADHD, more than likely you probably have, you're somewhere on this scale, whereas the opposite can also be true where you're on this scale but you don't classify as one of the diagnoses that a medical health professional can provide you to help almost validate your feelings, if that kind of makes sense.
Dr. Amy:Yeah, absolutely.
Sandy:How does sensory processing issues affect motor skills and motor skill development for kids?
Dr. Eva:So this is a passion of mine because as a physical therapist I was like, what can you do with your body? I was like, what can you like integrate as a parent? And so with motor skills, a lot of the time you'll see sensory processing effects, not just like you think, like okay, your sensory system, you think your hands and what you eat and what you touch, but it also affects your coordination. So you'll notice these kids have more clumsiness In classes, they'll tend to trip more, they'll tend to fall more, they'll tend to have more difficulty with writing. So you'll notice them like manifest itself in that coordination because their body's not integrating the information as well as someone else might. And so these are the kids that there's so many things that you can do to develop that coordination and balance. Another way would be they tend to have delayed reaction times. So with these slower processes like, for example, the sensory input that they're receiving, if they're not processing it in time, they can't really react the same as someone else who wants to kick them a soccer ball or someone else who wants to play tetherball with them or a four square, and so they don't have those reaction times that they would typically. So working on reaction times. Coordination, balance, strength and endurance are major things. So with the reduced strength, with like, over time you'll notice that kids tend to avoid activities and so they're not building on reduced strength. Over time you'll notice that kids tend to avoid activities and so they're not building on that strength. So parents can really really help in this way, in that, for example, if their son or daughter they tend to have difficulties, for example, keeping their balance or running or playing with friends, they can incorporate strategies at home for running or playing with friends. They can incorporate strategies at home Like, for example, implement a balance beam at home. That's very doable. Put a piece of tape on the floor, lay it down and create a game. Be like I want you to walk across this without falling out of that line, like that's very, very simple, but allowing your child to say, no, I can do this. And they can get better and better and better With motor planning, what you'll notice is that when they're thinking about what they want to do, but they can't do it exactly, so let's say someone like a practical example we're working on four square here, so they know they need to hit the ball back, they know they need to pass it back to that square but they can't.
Dr. Eva:You'll notice that clumsiness comes out where they'll hit the ball back. They know they need to pass it back to that square but they can't. You'll notice like that clumsiness comes out where they'll hit the ball and they'll just bounce out or they'll know what they want to do and then that frustration builds up. You'll notice these kids just have so much frustration I can't do it, I can't play, they won't let me play, I'm not very good.
Dr. Eva:You'll notice that self-talk is just so negative for these kids but that inconsistencies, where sometimes they get it and sometimes they don't, that really plays such a huge part on these kids because they don't have that self-confidence and confidence is something that they need. They need to develop confidence in order to thrive in our society today. That is something that parents can help build on and teach on and have little milestones. That overall help with not just their motor skills but that carries on to relationships with peers and that carries on to like building basic friendships and participating in activities and even being able to do well in like classes and being able to sit still and being able to stand in a line and not feel like they're dizzy or out of line somewhere. Does that kind of make sense?
Dr. Amy:Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up motor planning. I actually have been diagnosed with a motor planning delay and I'm unable to mimic movements and poses. For like, for example, if I'm having a photo made and the photographer is telling me how to sit or how to tilt my head or how to put my shoulder forward, like I can't figure out what he's saying. Like I will tell the photographer you have to actually pose me. Like, move my shoulders where you want them, right. Or like I can't follow an exercise video, right? Like it takes me so long to figure out. Okay, I see the person moving in a certain way. How do I make my body mimic that? Right, I have to watch it again and again. I have to stop the tape. Practice it, you know, and so it's. I have never actually heard anyone else talk about it ever in the world, and so I can't even describe to you the emotions that I'm feeling right now. Like I feel so seen.
Dr. Eva:No, it's like validation, knowing like this a thing, someone can explain it like that is, this is this, is like such a passion now, because I realize how much education, like someone who has learned and it's continuing to learn, can also like provide just to the basic, anyone like anyone and you can feel like, yeah, I got this, like I can, I know what to do now.
Dr. Amy:Yeah yeah, it was actually an eye doctor that diacrased me.
Dr. Eva:No, kidding yeah.
Dr. Amy:That's awesome, like a behavioral optometrist who was trying to figure out why I kept running into door frames.
Dr. Eva:Yeah.
Dr. Eva:Yeah, so anyway it might have been yeah, that's so cool. It honestly might just be like that coordination that's slower, like processing physically to where, like, for example, if you were even an adult, but if you're gauging it towards a child who still has, like, they're building their brain so much faster than a typical adult. There's so many things that you can do to practice that and help speed those processes up, because neuroplasticity in your brain, the way that it can grow and heal and change after anything, is so beautiful and so using that, using that to a benefit of someone who's still upbringing like that would have been so cool. Imagine if you would have been on the dance team, like, completely, yeah, that would be Right.
Dr. Amy:I was in my forties before somebody put a label on it. So, yeah, fascinating, like what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all right. So you've got kids who either have they're struggling with motor planning or they are, you know, constantly in motion, and so what I'm hearing is that's the same kind of approach that you're you were taking with the sensory avoiding and sensory seeking behaviors, right, you look where, where's your child on this spectrum of either way too much movement or I'm really struggling to move in that certain way at all, and then you find ways to nurture that.
Dr. Eva:Yes, so you want to challenge. Just enough is what I always say. You don't want to make it too difficult to where you're like, oh, they need help with this. Let's say you notice a problem or you notice a challenge that the child has. You don't want to be like, well, you have to do this and this will fix it. Like, if it's not possible for the child or it is just too difficult for them, you might hurt that strategy or you might hurt that child's almost like confidence in that and then they'll almost like regress in a way that well, no, I can't do that.
Dr. Eva:So the challenge is that when you figure out what your child needs and what they need to practice and get better at, those are the things that you want to provide. Just enough challenge. You want them to meet that goal. That is your challenge as a parent is you want them to meet that goal but you want them to need to try. You don't need them to just do it and be done Like. You need them to actually have that challenge, like for you. For example, if I was your therapist in the day, I would have given you like I want you to practice this dance move and this yoga poses or whatever that might be. Or I want you to complete this choreographed therapy, like walk on a beam, walk through this, go through this tunnel, and that way, as a child, you'd be like I got this, I can do something a little bit more challenging, and the effects on your brain for that, like motor planning, that neuroplasticity that's happening continuously and your body's learning. It is completely connected. So your brain attached to every single muscle and nerve.
Sandy:You're speeding that process up attached to it every single muscle and nerve. You're speeding that process up. As you're talking, I'm thinking through all of those kid games that we used to play. I don't even know if they still play them I'm sure they do or they're different now. But things like red light, green light or you know freeze tag or you know musical chairs, like all of those things that have both movement and inhibitory control kind of included in them, and I love that you really kind of highlighted that doable challenge concept. But from like a movement perspective, let's just kind of live there for a second. Let's think of like what are some specific techniques and exercises that parents can help kind of do or support their children's sensory integration. What would you recommend?
Dr. Eva:So, with this, what I would say is what you want to do is create a sensory diet. This is what you'll hear this term a lot, but it's not what you think it is. So a sensory diet is it's a very catered program to each child, catered program to each child. So what you're looking for is you want the right activities that challenge the right aspects of what you're trying to complete, and this is what they crave and what they need throughout the day. So, for example, if your child loves jumping on the trampoline okay, or loves jumping off of the couch, a practical strategy would be instead, purchase a little trampoline in the house. Or a practical strategy would be, instead, purchase a little trampoline in the house or a little safe zone and put a bar on it so it's safe, and have them keep doing it. Have them almost like, get what they need out of that, whereas, on the contrary, if you have someone who is like, well, no, I don't need that, you're catering your sensory diet to what they need, that you're creating a sensory corner, you're creating a calm environment, you're very much so giving them what they need, but you're teaching them. This is what I do to get there. For example, if a child's like overwhelmed with something and they can't get there, they just they don't know what to do. They're so overwhelmed. That is what you do. Is you just teach them no, this is what you do. Like you can go here and what do you like about this? What do you not like? Practice all of it. Do you like this, do you like that? And they'll usually tell you no, I don't like that, it's too colorful or no, I don't like that. It. It makes me dizzy. So simple things like that. Other things that you can do.
Dr. Eva:As a physical therapist, I see from like early, early child to adult, and the biggest thing for every single one is core stability and balance and coordination. These are the big things for me. So when you look at core strength, there's a lot of diagnoses that can affect your core strength and so these kids can't participate. They don't feel like they can participate because they don't have the strength to sit up. They don't have the strength to do what you're asking them to do.
Dr. Eva:So simple at-home activities with bringing that core to where you need it. For example, make it simple Do a bear walk, do crab crawls You've seen those where you put your hands behind. Do a timed plank. That is very practical. Have the siblings, if they have them, chime in, be like I want to see who can last the longest in this plank and get prizes for first, second, third and fourth and fifth place. Like nobody loses. But the point is that you're encouraging playfulness while you are improving their core strength. And then, for balance, like I mentioned before, do something simple. Put a piece of tape on the ground, have them walk on that tape, or there's gymnastic things that you can buy that are very, very simple. You can set that out for them and that way they can practice and they can have fun with it. But that's really building that balance and coordination. So there's so many games.
Dr. Amy:Oh good, sorry, no, go ahead. I'm so sorry, it's okay. No, I'm just like, I'm just remembering, you know, my elementary school PE teacher, remembering, you know my elementary school PE teacher. Right, like you just described, elementary school PE activities to build core strength and balance that make total sense now. And so do you think and this just popped into my brain, but you know we see less and less time spent on extracurriculars and PE time in our schools now than we used to. Do you think that that can be a contributor to why you're seeing deficits in core strength and balance in childhood?
Dr. Eva:100%. This is something that and I feel like it's only going to get worse this is the sad part is it's going to get worse because of where we're going. As humans, we're relying more on technology. Where, how much time do you spend sitting? Think about it compared to 30, 40 years ago. How much more time is a child spent sitting on the ground playing a video game? Or when they go outside, they're not playing those high energy games that they used to.
Dr. Eva:If you remember, I remember as a child my parents would say don't come home till the streetlights are on. I mean thinking back now. I would never do that with my children. I'd be like, oh no, I better know where you are. Now, I would never do that with my children. I'd be like, oh no, I better know where you are. But thinking back to where, like they came home sweaty. They came home completely like covered in dirt and we all just we had fun. We had fun outdoors. We were jumping and playing and riding bikes and doing all of these activities that think about now like safety.
Dr. Eva:Safety is a major concern. We all know how unsafe it can be out there. We've seen the horror stories and so we don't allow our child to just go and play, so creating safe spaces for that, like where can my child go to ride their bike but still be safe and I can still keep an eye on them, things like that. But that is a major, major downfall of where I feel, like society and technology, and fear, like now, what we see on TV, what we see on like Netflix and Hulu, and we're like, okay, what are we watching? You're never going outside, like you're not going from my eyesight, like that. That, to me, is just we need to find ways to go around that. Like, how can we as a society find a way to allow our children to explore, have fun, play outside, work on their balance, coordination, their proprioceptive system and vestibular system, learn what it's like to fall, to get up again, to practice again and again? How can we as a society help that?
Dr. Eva:Otherwise, we're going to have these children that don't know, or that it makes them very, very nauseous to spend because they've never done it. They don't know what that's like To me. I'm like that's a passion of mine. I'm like I'm going to see what I can do. I'm going to help with resources. I was like I'm going to try because children are so important, if you really think about it. They're our future. They're the future of our world. Where do you want to see your world? That is where you're bringing your child to. Where do you want them to? Do you want them to be able to tolerate the world around them?
Sandy:Or do you want them to hide in a corner in their house because they can't handle what the world is outside Like? That's a big deal. I think that's why there's been such a rise I think even since COVID just in like play-based daycares and early elementary schools, like you know, the rise in things like Montessori and Waldorf, where there's just a lot more experiential learning and just allowing the kids to really figure out their bodies and also learn in the same kind of ways. But I love that you talked about all of those different ways to actually be proactive.
Sandy:When my kids were little, I'd take them to these really pretty fancy parks, but the park they loved the best was literally just a bunch of rocks, that's all it was. But we would all meet there with a bunch of other families and they would play hide the flag or capture the flag, whatever the name of that game was, and then they would just climb rocks for hours and, like with any of the parks that I took them, that's the one where I literally have to, you know, threaten them to get back to the car because we had to leave. But just finding those avenues and play spaces is a challenge as well, so you almost have to create them anymore. Don't you agree to like create places for play for kids so that they can really tap into all of those things that you described?
Dr. Eva:You do, you really do. You have to. You either find them, which they're becoming more challenging to find because they're either. The crazy part is you'll see parents like, oh, my child fell and now it's park, you know that's the park's fault, whereas like, no, your child is learning, let them fall, like that's okay. And so you're seeing a lot of like where safety has become such an issue and not just like people are so fearful.
Dr. Eva:We've come to an age, especially after COVID, we're so afraid of experiencing outside, we're so afraid of being near other people, and this is where, like, social anxiety comes in and you're getting kids that are like hiding away and not doing things. Like, yes, we need to create those spaces, but honestly, we can. We, as moms, know playdates are a thing we're like, hey, what do you have at your house? Or hey, what do you have at your house? Like they have a massive gym or they have a really cool outdoors with lots of rocks. So you kind of find that space as a mom, but being very strategic in what your child needs and find places that they need to go for that, I think that's going to be the key.
Dr. Amy:So we have a lot of homeschool parents who listen to our show, and so I think that this is a super important message when you're thinking about planning your physical education activities that it's important to not just look at this as a sports or aerobic activity perspective, but this whole idea of building core strength, building balance, working on proprioception, and how that is important for multiple life skills right, not just hey, are you able to throw a ball and catch it?
Dr. Eva:Yeah, and I think what people don't realize is that children are a lot like adults in the sense of they like doing tasks. I guess this is more is it males who love to do tasks, like side by side, and then they create friends. So they create friends through activities, doing something together, and so it's not just the specific activity you're working on which you are. You're finding ways to encourage those activities and build that strength. This also helps to make friends.
Dr. Eva:If you think about it, a lot of kids with diagnoses or who feel they're on this level of sensory seeking for sensory avoiding. They tend to avoid other kids. If that makes sense, you tend to go towards where you're comfortable, and a lot of the time it's either your child is too active or, on the other side, your child is too quiet and the kids don't want to play with them. And so you get these two mixes of heartbreak because other kids don't want to play with your kids, Whereas as a parent, if you are creating activities, they're like no, this is awesome. Where you can do an activity very specific towards a goal. Those kids are the ones that have the friends Like. I had so much fun jumping off the monkey bars with them, or I had so much fun swinging on the swings with them. Can we do that again, Like that is what you want.
Sandy:Can we do that again, Like that is what you want and I'm hearing you basically kind of endorse. I mean, maybe not explicitly but, you know, try lots of different things, like it's just a kajillion athletic things you can try. You can try swimming, but if it's too much you can try running, you can try tennis, you can try karate. You can try so many different things that'll tap into all of these skills that you've been addressing. But find the one that hits the right. You know sensory load or you know challenge for them. That's motivation to them to continue to grow and get stronger 100%.
Dr. Eva:We actually on our Instagram, dr Sensory. That is like one of my last posts that I posted and it was about how kids who feel or have a diagnosis like ADHD. What activities can they do to help promote not just friends but also foster to their creative outlet? For example, martial arts big one, you can do baseball or soccer. Do they love running? Put them in soccer Like that's awesome. Let them run Like if they need to hit something. Put them in baseball Like. There's so many activities that you can do to cater specifically to your child and that's the cool part is they make friends, you get some of that energy out, they come home and they can actually listen to you and you can be a parent instead of constantly managing these meltdowns after these experiences that they have.
Sandy:So I want to make sure we address this before we run out of time, but I want you, Ava, to make the case for fidgets for any adult listening to this podcast that either doesn't see the purpose or hates them. What is the case for letting your child have a fidget if they need it?
Dr. Amy:And actually I'm going to let you think about that, eva, while Sandy reads a word from our sponsor, and then, when we come back, we'll talk about fidgets and all of the cool toys that might help with some of this when we come back.
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Dr. Amy:All right, we are continuing our conversation with Dr Eva Lassie, who is known as Dr Sensory for her expertise in sensory issues. So, eva, talk to us about sensory toys and fidgets, and who are they most beneficial for? What are the benefits? How can we choose the right types? Are there any that you would say? Just pass that one on by.
Dr. Eva:Okay. So this topic has become more and more important, especially as people realize that they need something. I think before people like, maybe thought that they might need something, but they almost pin themselves like, no, I don't need anything, I'm fine, and they end up being like the child in class who can't pay attention, or they end up being the one that has more difficulty learning or sitting still things like that where the focus is affected. And so now, now that there has come this whole new thing of resources that you could use, this is huge. So what you want to focus on is you want to engage the senses first. So you're looking at what you see, what you feel, what you sometimes what you taste, or whether you need oral stimulation. You're looking at what the preference is specific to the person. Are you wanting to promote focus or are you trying to relieve stress? What is it you want to do? And so what you really need to do is understand the personal needs of either yourself, if you're shopping for yourself, or for the child if you're shopping for a child, what their preferences are and, specifically, their sensory triggers. What do they not like? What do they want to stay away from? Those are the things that you don't want to get this child. You want this to promote calm focus and to allow them to find something where they can ground themselves. So, for example, fidget spinners, fidget cubes those you remember, remember like rubik's cubes were in for a while and then they just like left, like where did they go? Um, so fidget spinners what those are? It promotes focus. It reduces anxiety, especially that repetition that you see in toys like that. So that could be perfect for your average child who's like needs to do something with their hands. If you see them, they're always like playing with their hands, playing with their shirts, like they're just like constantly fidgeting with something. Those are perfect. But it's also perfect for your average adult, especially someone who can't focus. As someone with ADHD, you know, like I can't focus. I need something. I mean, it used to be where you pinch your own fingers just to get something to focus on, and so now that there are like little spinners and things like that, that is what you want to use, like that is awesome, try it out. It's also trial and error. You have to understand that trial and error is very, very important in this.
Dr. Eva:If a little fidget toy is not your cup of tea and you're looking for a more calming thing, try a weighted blanket, try a lap mat. Those are now becoming a lot more popular, especially for those kids that need pressure. They need that proprioceptive input. They need like that deep calm. These are your kids who love hugs. They love like that deep pressure, just calming. I don't even know how else to describe it. They just need that pressure. With that. It provides comfort, it provides relaxation that they need. So if your child needs that or if you need that, that's very simple. A weighted lap mat would be perfect for you.
Dr. Eva:There's also, which is a controversial thing, I think, is the chewable necklaces that are out there. So the reason this is controversial is because, so, my sister is a dentist and she's always like well, like, for example, even like pacifiers. She's like, well, that ruins, like this and that, and I'm like okay, but if someone is seeing that oral stimulation, they're going to find it somewhere. Why not put it into a controlled thing, somewhere where they know they can go to? They're not.
Dr. Eva:You'll notice these kids that just need that feedback, like they might be your biter in daycare. That might be like someone who tends to want to like bite bookshelves or chew on books Like this is something my daughter even did. I was like how did that book get all bit up? The corner's all gone, like she would be perfect. Like, especially if you're at like teething phase as well, you, you can use something very simple. There's very um, like smaller things for adults who are capable of handling the smaller items. This is something that you very, very careful on, because little kids cannot have those small items that you would trust an older, older, um person with. So that has to be very, very strategic.
Dr. Amy:But we can also Actually, let me speak to that. So my oldest child in elementary school they didn't he's like in his 20s, so they didn't have those necklaces at the time but he would bite a hole through the collar of his shirt during the school day, or the sleeve of his, the hem of his sleeve, right. So all these shirts had these holes in the collars and the bottom of the sleeves and wrist. So if I had had one of those sensory necklaces at the time for him, how amazing and how many shirts would we have saved? Right, he obviously needed that neural stimulation and that would have been a perfect way to do that in a way that didn't destroy his wardrobe too.
Dr. Eva:What an expensive right.
Dr. Amy:Those necklaces are $10.
Dr. Eva:The shirts are so perfect yeah, oh gosh. I'm so sorry as a mom, I would have learned. So perfect. Yeah, oh gosh, I'm so sorry as a mom, I would have learned how to sew. I feel like, nope, you're wearing it again, oh gosh. But yes, the necklaces are perfect and it can honestly be anything. I've seen ones where you can put in the freezer and they become cold and so they're getting that temperature gradient with it of what they prefer. So that's really cool too. So, or creating it with it of what they prefer, so that's really cool too. So you can look at different options for that.
Dr. Eva:And then the last few categories that I would say are like visual and then tactile, like, is it a child that needs to see something as a calming thing? If you really focus, like, or if you notice kids now see some of these blurry images coming through their screens all the time, or very bright lights that they're coming through. Some of the shows that research has shown has caused honestly is on its way to probably increasing the ADHD rate is how, like the speed of the show, if you notice the screens change every one to one and a half seconds, so that in kids that continuous like boom, boom, boom, boom. You're continuously seeing that change. Like that affects them too. So something that has a slow change like, for example, even the lava lamps from back in the day I love those, I think I'm going to go and get one but that it's slow. It's therapeutic, it slows their system.
Dr. Eva:Some of those kids need that because after, if they watch a show like that, you'll notice that their dynamic changes, their energy changes. They're very overstimulated. You'll notice those meltdowns start to happen a lot faster and they almost become addicted to it. Like this is where that really changes who they are, whereas if you can focus that energy on like something slower, something a toy, that's very much like you have to sit with this for a minute and you have to enjoy it it almost detoxes them from that, which is inevitable in today's age.
Dr. Eva:Honestly, there's screens in schools now where they use their iPads continuously, so you just don't know. But finding something grounding for them is just so, so awesome and as a parent, you have control of that. That's the cool part. Like a fish tank yes, what a great way to bring like life into your home, but also have your. That also allows kids to like, know responsibility, like they're learning to feed that animal, the animal, the fish. They're learning, like, what it is to take care of something and then watch it in slow motion. Yes, 100%. Oh, I love that reference. I'm going to use that, okay, so yeah.
Sandy:Amy, maybe you can speak to the mechanism of that a little bit, because I think that can be confusing to parents as to how in the brain does it help you focus if you are clicking or doing something else? I often like with cognitive training you'll find that sometimes the student actually does better if you have them doing a mental activity on top of the thing that you're asking them to do. Doing it alone was much harder than actually loading that up and pushing them through to be able to do the task at hand. For example, you know having to count while also putting a puzzle together. All of a sudden it sort of comes together because they're having to do that divided attention task. Is there a mechanism for that? As to why being able to isolate your focus onto a fidget, something that you can squeeze or touch, can help the brain prioritize other things?
Dr. Amy:Well, so Dr Christina Ledbetter, who's a clinical neuroscientist, says that when we use a fidget toy, it actually grounds the misfiring neurotransmitters toy. It actually grounds the misfiring neurotransmitters. And so you know, have we put someone in a functional MRI machine and given them a fidget toy and seen that happen? I'm not sure. So I think that's a theoretical you know or just a hypothesis as to what's happening, but it also we know, in the ADHD brain. Adhd brains can't rack and stack priority right. Everything is important. And so when you are saying, okay, do this with one hand, while then focusing on another, what you've done is you've taken away all of the other stimuli. You've said, okay, there are 15 things that you could potentially be focused on right now, and we've narrowed it down to two the fidget toy in your hand and the math problem that you have to solve. And so sometimes, because I have an ADHD brain also, sometimes we need that narrowed down for us. I don't know, eva, do you have another explanation?
Dr. Eva:I think that you have as a human. You need something that's comfort for you. So we all seek comfort in some which way, whatever way that is, especially in uncomfortable situations. So, if you really think about it, if you're out and about and you have social anxiety and you don't like being out with someone, something that's of comfort to you sometimes that's even a person, Like if you notice, if you're out and about in public and you don't like that, but you have your friend with you or your spouse with you that relieves so much. Like you can tolerate what's around you a lot better.
Dr. Eva:Sometimes weaning that down to not being a person so you can actually, you know, thrive on your own. Like weaning that down to an object or something that you have in. Maybe it's super discreet, where no one even knows it. You don't have to pull out a bag of items Like I love that, but you can just have your thing. It's your thing, so find it and focus on that, while then being able to provide space for whatever you're learning or whatever you're doing else, if that makes sense.
Dr. Amy:Yeah, I actually love that explanation because there is an emotional component to sensory processing issues, right. And so if we are experiencing any sort of stress and anxiety, right, that is throwing us into a fight or flight status. Being able to be mindful about the thing that we're holding right, like we're being fully present with what this feels like, what this looks like, what this sounds like, what this might be tasting like, when we're able to ground ourselves in a sensory experience that can pull us out of that sympathetic nervous system response, so that then we are able to focus on the task that we need to focus as well. So I think that that was an important point too, that that comfort thing can pull us out of fight or flight.
Dr. Eva:And I feel like a lot of people will notice like their child just automatically pulls it out, like if they have it and they keep using it, it almost becomes like an automatic response. They know to go there, but their tolerance for everything around them is so much better because they've learned that they're just grounded. It becomes a new baseline of them with something and obviously there's conversations about like, well, what happens if they don't have it? Obviously that's always a concern, but you're teaching them to have strategies. You're teaching them like this is you can always find something new, that's okay. Like cater to where you're at. It could wean down to, eventually, a ring that you have, or maybe like something on your finger, like it can be anything. But teaching them those strategies to then be able to thrive around them, like that's beautiful.
Dr. Amy:Yeah, and I think that's important too. I'm glad you pointed that out, because we all know what happens to the two-year-old who leaves their stuffed animal at childcare and then can't go to sleep without it that night. Right? And so when we give our kids options and strategies, hey, when you're feeling dysregulated or when you're feeling overstimulated or you need some additional stimulation, here are three or four different sensory toys that you could pick from. Or, by the way, here's a breathing exercise or a grounding exercise that you can do if you don't have one of your sensory toys. So giving them lots of different, or at least a few different, options to ground themselves, I think is important.
Dr. Eva:And everybody needs that. Everybody, no matter where you are, no matter who you are, even as you get older. We all need that. We all need to know that we're in a safe space, even with ourselves. So that's wonderful.
Dr. Amy:All right, we are out of time and need to wrap this up. Eva, is there a way that our listeners can know more from you, connect with you? How can they find out more about your work?
Dr. Eva:Thank you for asking. I am so passionate about this. I'm actually excited to broaden the resources that just the everyday parent can have but not just parent, but experts and anyone who's looking for information, and so our Instagram, dr Sensory, we focus on, like if you were to provide any kind of topic that you want more information, we do the research for you and we'll post you like practical strategies. It's very simple. What I love is like it's very child focused, but then it's also very like diagnosis focused, for it's very simple. What I love is like it's very child focused, but then it's also very like diagnosis focused for those with very specific needs, and so that is what we love to do.
Dr. Eva:We have built up our website, but our goal is this is our goal for you insiders on this is that the software is almost up and running for those children who you need more for. You need an occupational therapist, you need a speech therapist and you're having difficulties getting an appointment. That's our goal is to provide that for you. We want for you to be the one-stop shop of hey, come look here. We found a speech therapist for you. We found an occupational therapist for you. You're not alone in your parenting journey. There's so many resources out there. It just takes some work sometimes and knowing your child, obviously, but we all love that. So thank you so much.
Dr. Amy:I love that. What a great resource. And you're at drsensorycom Also. You have lots of great articles on some of the topics that we talked about today and some that we probably didn't get to talk about today, so it's a fantastic platform for sure.
Sandy:Dr Nitalasa, thank you, thank you, guys, so much.
Dr. Amy:Oh, thank you for being with us today. This was a great conversation and one that was long overdue. Yeah, all right, listeners. Thank you.
Dr. Eva:Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say thank you so much for being on the forefront of this Like thank you for being willing to show parents that there is an answer, like that is such a wonderful thing and I think you both are doing so amazing in that.
Dr. Amy:Thank you All right listeners, thanks for being with us today. If you like us, please follow us on social media at the Brainy Moms. If you like our show, we would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts so that we can reach more smart parents like you. If you would rather see our faces, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at the Brainy Moms and for some great demos on cognitive skills and learning, you can find Sandy on TikTok at the Brain Trainer Lady. That is all the smart stuff that we have for you today, so we're going to catch you next time.
