Brainy Moms
Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast with smart ideas to help moms and kids thrive! Hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore along with rotating co-hosts Sandy Zamalis, Teri Miller, and Dr. Jody Jedlicka, this weekly show features conversations and guest experts in parenting, psychology, child development, education, and medicine with practical tips to help moms navigate the ups and downs of parenthood. We're smart moms helping make moms smarter...one episode at a time!
Brainy Moms
Sensory Processing & Emotion Regulation with Sarah Collins
Ever wonder why your child can't sit still during lessons? Why they melt down when they're wearing certain clothes? Or why they're suddenly screaming at you when they haven't eaten in hours? The answer might lie in sensory processing—a critical yet often overlooked component of learning and behavior.
In this illuminating conversation, occupational therapist Sarah Collins unpacks how our sensory systems influence every aspect of learning and daily life. Beyond the familiar five senses we all know, she explains how our vestibular system (balance), proprioception (body awareness), and interoception (internal body signals) create the foundation for successful learning and emotional regulation.
Sarah reveals the surprising connection between body awareness and emotion regulation, backed by research showing that children who struggle to sense what's happening in their bodies often have difficulty managing their emotions. This knowledge transforms how we understand "difficult" behaviors—what looks like defiance or lack of focus might actually be sensory overwhelm.
The homeschooling environment offers unique opportunities to accommodate sensory needs. Instead of forcing children to adapt to one-size-fits-all learning environments, parents can create flexible spaces that support each child's sensory profile. Maybe your child comprehends better while gently rocking, standing, or even upside down! As Sarah explains, "calm" doesn't necessarily mean "still"—it means the nervous system is regulated enough to process information effectively.
Most powerfully, Sarah shares practical strategies for identifying sensory needs and adapting environments accordingly. From morning routines that incorporate movement to sensory-friendly workspaces, these approaches can dramatically improve learning outcomes. She also discusses how to balance competing sensory needs when siblings have different—sometimes opposite—requirements for successful learning.
Ready to transform your homeschool experience? Listen now to discover how understanding sensory processing can lead to less frustration, more enjoyment, and deeper learning for your entire family.
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Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms podcast brought to you today by LearningArcs Brain Training Centers. I'm Dr Amy Moore here with Sandy Zimalis, and Sandy and I are going to have a conversation today with Sarah Collins. Sarah is an occupational therapist with a specialization in helping parents align homeschooling with their children's unique needs. Through Homeschool OT, she provides personalized consultations, teaches month-long courses on key topics, fosters community through group and individual coaching, and she speaks at national conferences. Her work empowers parents to build learning environments that support their children's development and passions. Welcome, sarah. We are so excited to have this conversation with you today. Thank you.
Sarah Collins:I'm excited to be here. It's our second time in one week because we are recording for both, so it makes me really happy.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, absolutely Listeners. I was a guest on Sarah's podcast the OT Is In earlier this week and we met speaking at the same conference a homeschool conference in Virginia last year, and so we sat on a panel about neurodiversity and then the panel time was over, we kind of went our own ways and then we ran into each other in the bathroom. I don't know, it's always awkward when you're having a conversation with another woman in a bathroom. I don't know, but we did, and somehow we said, hey, we should swap being a guest on each other's podcasts. And that's been almost a year and a year. And she said, hey, you remember that conversation in the bathroom?
Sarah Collins:When we were washing hands leading over squirt water.
Dr. Amy Moore:Let's do it. You know, we operate in that same space of helping kids with learning struggles, and we love helping homeschool families help their kids who have learning struggles, and so it was a perfect fit, I think, for us to swap podcasts, and so we're going to talk to you today about your expertise in being an occupational therapist and how that fits with helping homeschool families help their kids in that space. Talk to us a little bit about what it means to be an occupational therapist, because I think that there is a common misperception when people hear the word occupational, that they think job.
Sarah Collins:Oh yeah, I get that all the time. Even I used to work home health care before we started homeschooling and at that point, working in home health care it's. The majority of people are already retired and so they'd be like the OT, the occupational therapist is coming and everyone would be like I don't need a job. I've already done that. But no, it's different what we do. It actually the word goes back all the way.
Sarah Collins:For those of you in the homeschooling world, if you've read any of Charlotte Mason's books, she talks about occupations all the time, because that's just the lingo of the 1800s and here we are bringing it in now to good old 2025. But occupation is how you occupy your time, so it's anything and everything that you want to do during the day, anything from getting up and brushing your teeth. That's what we call an activity of daily living. So that's an occupation. Learning to read is an occupation. Going to work sure, that's an occupation. Talking on Zoom is my occupation with you right now, podcasting. So everything that we need and want to do. So when our kids are struggling with any of those things and we want to know why and how we support them, then that's where I come in.
Dr. Amy Moore:So if you could rename it in a modern term today, have you ever thought about that? What would you actually know? Now I am functional therapist daily living like how would you rename it? Maybe? And if you don't know, then here's your homework.
Sarah Collins:Yeah, I feel like that is a good homework because at first I was like, maybe activity therapy. But you know what? We? There's a whole field of recreation therapy which actually we were talking before. I my undergraduate is from York College of Pennsylvania and I was a recreation therapist first before I went back to graduate school to become an occupational therapist. So, cause, recreation is one of the areas of occupation that we talk about, so I don't think I could call it activity therapist. Everything you do therapist. Maybe that's what I'd be the all day it activity therapist, everything you do therapist. Maybe that's what I'd be the all day, everyday therapist. There you go.
Sandy Zamalis:And it really does fall under that kind of umbrella because you guys really help with a lot of different things Like I think of if my child is having handwriting issues, who do we call an OT? If my child is having some behavioral issues, you might start off with an OT Eating and eating is OT.
Sarah Collins:So many people come in for that type of thing and, yeah again, all day, every day, sleep. That is an occupation. So there are people working in all of those areas, and then you also hear of rehab. So getting back into driving right Driving is occupational therapy. That's an occupation to do. You guys, even I don't know who your listeners are.
Sarah Collins:But here we are to tell them occupational therapists a lot even work in the sex industry, because that's an occupation, right. So we run the gamut as far as what your specialty is into all day, every day activities.
Sandy Zamalis:So there you go All day, every day. That's going to be my next question. So it sounds to me like you almost have to pick a specialty, but maybe not Otherwise.
Sarah Collins:It's just so much to learn right, yeah, so the theory goes into everything, because what we do is take the activity that you want to do. So let's just take we can take brushing your teeth, right, since that's something small. So let's just take, we can take brushing your teeth, right, since that's something small. So we think about if brushing your teeth is your activity, what motor skills do you need? So I need to be able to grasp it. I need to know the sequence of what comes first, second and third. I need to be able to rotate my wrist so that I can get around my mouth. I need to be able to turn on the water. I need to be able to stand right. So there's the motor skills, there's the cognitive skills. Again, I talked some about the motor sequence, but that's also the sequence of what comes first, second and third, as far as I squeeze the toothpaste before I put it in my mouth, and when do I do this in the day. So those are some of the cognitive skills and then social skills that go along with that, like, why am I going to do this? And so if our kids are struggling with any of those, then that's where we come in to help figure out that why. And then how do we address it? Do we address it by working on the cognition? Do we address it by changing or adapting? So maybe we change the size of the toothpaste or the toothbrush. Do we do a social story to explain why, so that then they're more willing? They're just that same theory. You take that and you apply it to reading. It's the same thing. What are the motor skills, social skills, cognitive skills, why? How do we come alongside of them, support them? The same exact thing for eating. The theories are all the same the activity analysis. And then what? So do we specialize? Yes and no.
Sarah Collins:I am working now with homeschool families and in fact there are people that are like I. This made me laugh recently when I was trying to figure out how do I explain what I do? Because people, people are like if you're going to Google something there, they need to know exactly what you do. And so I'm like I don't know, I do it all right. And then so someone was like, oh, you're like this, the search engine for when my child is struggling. I was like great, I love that. So that's what I say now we, I look at what is the struggle, how can we come alongside and support our children. And what do we? How do we adapt or how do we support our kids specifically?
Dr. Amy Moore:Okay, so let's break that down. Sandy is saying oh my gosh, you have to narrow it down because it's a little bit of everything. So how do we narrow down this conversation for less than an hour?
Sandy Zamalis:Because it's a little bit of everything and so.
Dr. Amy Moore:I really want to get into talking about sensory processing and its influence on executive functioning and proprioception and interoception and all of that good stuff. But as you were giving the teeth brushing example, I was reflecting on how the sensory experience of the temperature of the water would also impact whether or not a child would fully engage in the teeth brushing. If the water's too hot, if the water's too cold, if you have water running down your arm, yeah.
Sarah Collins:So it adds a whole component to what you're doing in the environment and there are so many OTs and myself included where we really we run the. We say this is our area of expertise within the world, because there's PTs that are working on the motor skills, too right, and there's teachers who are working on the cognitive skills, there are the speech therapists who are working on the sequencing. So all of us, when we're coming together, what kind of sets OT apart? Is that? Yes, we also are thinking about sensory-wise what is adding into this experience for you? Because it's not just the things that you have to do, but it's also how the world impacts, how you are able to process that information and process what you're going to do.
Sarah Collins:You know what, even if we keep talking about brushing your teeth, you're brushing your teeth at home and you're familiar sink and you know how loud it's going to be when you turn it on and you know exactly the water temperature is going to be. And then you meet in that bathroom that Amy and I were in and the water is so darn cold. No matter what, you turn it on and you touch it and you're shivering. That's a whole other thing for a kid to be able to do, or there's another person coming in, or it's the hotel bathroom and it smells different, or anything. What makes everything surrounding that actual activity that you're doing impacts your success?
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, okay. So then let's talk about how sensory processing and that interaction with the environment has an impact on our executive processing.
Sarah Collins:Yeah, so deep we're going to, we're going to get into this. First, I feel like we need to talk about what are the sensory systems, because all of us probably have heard of the top five. We learned this in elementary school what you and what you smell and what you taste, what you hear and what you touch. Those are our five main systems that everybody knows already. But then there's also your vestibular system, which is your inner ear, and that is knowing where your body is in space. So I'm standing up right and how I keep my postural control so that as I'm talking to you I'm not like falling all over or my posture's not so awful that I'm scrunched in my seat, not falling off of my chair. This is your vestibular system is responsible for that.
Sarah Collins:Proprioception, which is not just how you touch your skin but instead the information that's going in through your joints. So how far, how firm you're picking something up. It's also knowing where your body is in relationship to itself. My arm is up now my my legs are crossed. I know that because I can feel it through my joints. Not just my leg is touching the other one, but I know internally. And then interoception is knowing what's going on inside your body. So it's everything from I know. You know that I feel calm, but I also know my. I don't not noticing my heart rate right now because it's just normal, but if you're running or after you've been going, you might be able to feel your heartbeat. You're noticing that when you feel hungry, and this is a tough one, especially for kiddos, who go from zero to hangry in a second right.
Sarah Collins:Because they're not in tune to their body or they don't know, because there's a whole lot that happens on the stomach area. If you think about if you're hungry or if you have to go to the bathroom, or if you have cramps right, or you feel nervous, a lot of times you feel that all in your belly and you have to be able to interpret that. So that's the sense of interception. So now, how does that all impact your executive functioning? Now we need to explain executive functioning right.
Sarah Collins:Let's all kind of define our terms here as we throw out and, Dr Amy, I feel like you can explain this probably better than me being cognitive scientist but or cognitive psychologist I'm throwing out the wrong things. No, I'm both, it's fine.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, all right, we got it all.
Sarah Collins:For defining executive functioning as just being able to start and work through a task all the way to its completion. So that includes the getting started, it includes your problem solving while you're going, it includes your attention, your working memory, like all of these things to get from start to finish. So let's think about your sensory processing, how that would affect it. Right, if you're struggling because you're taking in, there's so many noises that are around you, or there's lights that are blinking that are different, or you know your clothes feel uncomfortable, that's really hard to get started and to keep your attention and stay focused and persist through to the end if you're overwhelmed by your sensory system. So we have to help our children and ourselves. We are all included. We all have sensory systems, obviously, to keep that regulated for the task at hand.
Dr. Amy Moore:So so let's say that your sweater is itchy and you're trying to do a math test, right? And the tag in the back of your sweater, is driving you crazy or it's the fabric that's driving you crazy. Is it a frustration response that throws you into fight or flight and that impacts your ability to finish working or engaging on the test, or is there something else happening? Is that is the influence of that overwhelming sensory experience doing something? Is it a distraction but not an emotional response?
Sarah Collins:Or both or either. Yeah, I think it's both and it's really interesting. If you've ever read any of Gary Neufeld's work, have you ever read any of that stuff? He wrote how to Hold On to your Children. I think it was that book, him and Gabor Mate, and he's one of the first people that I've ever heard really talk about here in America how we mix the two of feelings and emotions.
Sarah Collins:But in reality they're different. You feel the emotion, right You're talking about here. I feel my sweater, right, your body might be doing something because of the way that sweater is, but your heart rate probably is going faster. Your pupils may be dilated, right, because you're having this stress response, and then your emotion is probably frustration and distraction because of those feelings. Then, as a result, like here's where OTs come in. And, amy, this is why I'm saying I bet you can explain what's going on in the brain way better than I can, because what OTs do is we think about the function, right.
Sarah Collins:So it doesn't actually matter whether it is the emotion or whatever. It matters whether you can be successful in what you need and want to do, which in that case, can you take a test? No, so we need to either A remove the sweater right, we can change the environment. Either A remove the sweater right, we can change the environment. Or B we can work with you on coping skills to calm the nervous system.
Sarah Collins:Like, how do you calm when you're wearing this itchy sweater? Because maybe you're at this test and you can't just take off your shirt right. Depends on where you are, whether that's socially acceptable or not. So we need to think about that or see is there something else that we can do right now. Can we remove or change the occupation? So can we change the test so that it's in a different spot? So maybe your sweater is only that overwhelming because you're also overwhelmed by holding the pencil and using your brain so hard to work, and so can we change that too, and that's where my bread and butter is. Let's look at all of those things together and figure out how to help you be successful.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, and so what I'm hearing you say too is this is not just going to take working one-on-one with the child who's struggling. The parent's gonna have to be involved too, because if the environment has to change or the task has to change, it's going to be the parent that makes that call. And so then they have to understand at a fundamental level what is happening here, and I don't mean that they have to understand from a neuroscience perspective. The questions that I was asking you was pure curiosity, right. What you're spot on by saying does it matter whether it's frustration or distraction.
Dr. Amy Moore:What matters is this child is incapable of engaging in this task because of this negative sensory experience that they are having. So we need to make a change in something, but that is going to require a parent to not be frustrated, to stay calm, to stay flexible. We work with a lot of parents who are not willing to be flexible. They have a schedule, they have a schedule and a curriculum and this is what we're doing today and this is the time we're doing it, and this is what we have to cover and we're not deviating. And if we deviate, right, then that's a reflection on me as a parent, not being able to control the learning environment.
Sarah Collins:Gosh, it's so hard because we as parents for sure like we want our kids to meet these norms right and to be successful, and so to do that, then we're thinking like we have to get this done and this done and this is going to follow the scope and sequence, so that here's the end point that we're trying to get to, and I understand that. I absolutely understand that. My question is typically to parents of all right, but if you're just pushing through, is your child actually learning that material or are they learning how to push through and sometimes that push through? Grit, that's important, resilience, that's important, but it shouldn't be that we're asking them to suppress what they're feeling, what their emotions are, what their body is doing, because then they can't advocate for themselves in the future. They're just learning how to. I don't know. It's funny.
Sarah Collins:My daughter, who went to public school up through third grade I feel like it took her until this year to recognize that she, when she's hungry, when she's thirsty and she's 16, now she's a junior in high school and when she needed to go to the bathroom, that she could do that when she wanted to. It's almost like she never didn't understand the skill of what is it that I'm feeling in my body and what do I do about it? Because, like there was, only you're only allowed to go at 10, literally, she ate lunch at 1047. No one's hungry at 1047. You just got to school at 920, but it didn't matter. That's the time that it needed to happen.
Sarah Collins:So what I would challenge you, as a parent, to do is to get curious and look at the. What is your child's body language telling you? What do you notice with their facial expressions? What do you notice? You can even literally check their heart rate, like some of these things that can help us to interpret. What is this response that's happening here? And then ask is this worth it? Is this perseverance worth the time that we're having this right now? Is the goal the perseverance or is the goal the knowledge? And if it's the knowledge, then persevering isn't going to be the answer.
Dr. Amy Moore:We shouldn't have to persevere just because you think that's what you're supposed to do and is it worth the struggle and the battle and the conflict and all that's happening because I said so and so when I have parents push back, when I suggest that they alter something in the child's environment or the schedule or whatever I say, how's it working for you? You don't have to make a change, but how's it working for you? Nothing changes as the parent.
Sarah Collins:The change is ours to make and think about even ourselves as adults Most of us you're not stuck and glued to your cubicle with your butt in the seat from nine to 1040, 920 to 1047, before you're allowed to go eat lunch. If you're hungry, you eat a snack. If something's bothering you, you stand up and move around, like I don't. As adults, if we are expected to be able to advocate and to carry meet our own needs, then why are we telling our children to suppress them just so that they can stay for our schedule and for what we're thinking that they need to do?
Sandy Zamalis:It sounds like what you're saying to me is that I love that you call. Your friend said you were a search engine. It's almost like you're a neutral set of eyes that helps break complex behaviors or things that are happening down into much more manageable pieces for parents to keep a watchful eye on or practice or build skill in. Is that a good observation of what?
Sarah Collins:you're saying yes, and I feel like I need to take the AI script of what you just said so that I can copy it and be like that. That's what I do.
Sandy Zamalis:That's awesome Because as parents, we just see the big. We see the big rock or elephant in the room right.
Sarah Collins:But, we need someone to help us break it down into much more manageable chunks, and there are so many times that what I'm doing is saying, okay, so here's where the issue is and we need to prioritize what's what we're going to go through to be able to help to support your child, and a lot of times I'm like all right, so if what we need to do is build within the cognitive system, okay, so sure, let's go to learning Rx and let's work on that. While we're doing that, here's some adaptations to the curriculum that you were doing at home or to the setup of your day, because maybe your child is more alert at 9am, maybe they're more alert because of their time, that they're allowed to rest or whatever. At 9pm it's dark outside and they're not having to take in all this information from the windows and the birds come in, so maybe it's 9 pm. Like we, I help to break those things down and prioritize and find the best resources to send out so that kids can get the skills that they need to and meet their environment.
Sandy Zamalis:Okay.
Sarah Collins:In the homeschool community? Yeah, in the homeschool community.
Sandy Zamalis:What do you, what do you see as the biggest need in the homeschool community, especially coming from an OT perspective? In general, just from our perspective, we see the homeschool community having a growing and growing need for help and, like the special needs space just really understanding neurodivergence and all the different needs that their children have and helping to accommodate that. Are you seeing the same thing?
Sarah Collins:Yeah, absolutely, and that's, I think, even the biggest growth area within the homeschool community just in terms of population, because there are so many kids who you know what their needs are, they can't figure out how to match the demands of the public school system or even a private school brick and mortar where we're asking kids to sit all the time. So if you're, if we're just going back to the sensory system, I think, and the demands think of when I was mentioning proprioception, that is the most calming sense. That's our ability to take in this information and organize it. So if you think about when you bump your arm, the first thing you do is grab it right. That's your proprioceptive system and that's helping to calm that nervous system down. Because, you've heard it, To activate your proprioceptive system you have to be moving, and so when we're asking our kids not to do that all day, but we want them to continue to work and be academic and learn and read and write and whatever, we're seeing a lot of struggle.
Sarah Collins:So people are coming out of the public school system. But if we're doing that same thing at home, we're also missing the point and not necessarily supporting our kids. So parents need to know just as much as teachers need to know how do we mesh the environment with what our kids need so that they're successful in those demands that we're placing on them.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, and I think one of the beautiful things about being a homeschooling family is that you get to decide what that environment looks like, and so you get to decide what the seating arrangement looks like and the types of seating that you can offer, and it doesn't have to be in the same seat all day. You can go from the dining room table to the couch, to your desk, to the beanbag chair, to the hammock swing on the back porch.
Sarah Collins:That is the way to minimize negative sensory experience and maximize what maximize comfort or, yeah, just to understand your body and what your body needs so that you can advocate and then be so yourself aware, so that then you can advocate to maximize the yes, the comfort or the balance.
Sarah Collins:How it doesn't the language doesn't necessarily matter, unless it's. It matters as far as the language that you're using with your children, right, so if you're telling them I want you to be calm, right, does calm mean that you want them to sit quietly and learn to twiddle their thumbs? Right, not talk? Right? Is that what calm is? Or is calm that, like, you're able to take in all the information from me reading your book, right, not talk, right? Is that what calm is? Or is calm that, like, you're able to take in all the information from me reading your book, right, and you're able to listen and narrate it back? So that might be that you're sitting on a hammock swing and we're spinning in a chair or whatever. Your body doesn't have to be still so we need to make sure that our language matches what we're asking our kids to do.
Dr. Amy Moore:I love that I'm very transparent, that I'm an ADHD warrior myself and I do have a hammock chair on my back porch that I can fully engage in whatever task I'm working on because of that rocking motion. Whatever task I'm working on, because of that rocking motion, it enables me to ground those misfiring neurotransmitters and be fully present with the task. Same with just gradually turning my chair back and forth at my desk. I don't do it while we're podcasting because it's distracting to whoever's watching. Nine times out of 10, you can move, yeah.
Sarah Collins:Yeah, and in fact while I am podcasting, I wish I can't take my camera down, but I wish you could see like I have a sit disc that sits on the ground, that I move my feet back and forth Like the entire time. I figured out what makes it so I don't look like I'm rocking, but I'm still giving myself movement. So if what our kids are used to us saying is calm down, which really means sit, still that's very different than what is calming to your nervous system and it could be that you need that movement to help you to be able to focus on what you're doing.
Dr. Amy Moore:And then I would assume too that some kids get overstimulated by that movement right so what works for one might not work for, yeah.
Sarah Collins:So for example in our house we say and my son, who's now 14, he jokes with me I'll tell him he's mom, your deeds aren't more important than my deeds.
Sarah Collins:But, that's what I used to say all the time to them when they were little, because my daughter is is she prefers things to be quiet, she prefers not a lot of. If you walked into her room, she's it's like mauve and gray and she has these like textures and candles, and oh, it's lovely. It just makes me want to have a cup of tea, I don't know. But my son, who is a hockey player, because he needs that movement and and now he's allowed to check because he's 14. But when he was 12, he had literally in all of Philadelphia, the most penalty minutes, right, because this is the kid who is the crasher, the mover all the time, and we were able to give that to him. But imagine the two of them together and then throw in my other and it can just be chaos. So I would always be telling them like, caleb, your needs are not more important than Annabelle's, and Annabelle, your needs for him to be still are not more important than his needs to move.
Sarah Collins:We have to figure this out together as a family.
Dr. Amy Moore:And then again, you just nailed it as the parent, you make those adaptations, you make those changes. You're able to say, okay, maybe it doesn't work for you all to be learning in the same room at the same time, and that's okay.
Sarah Collins:Yeah, absolutely. And what? One of the things that we figured out for Annabelle was that the movement didn't bother her as much when it was supposed to be happening, like when she was expecting it. It would be the unexpected movements that she wasn't prepared for. So then, for example, what we would do is we did a morning time where I would do lots of reading aloud and things and rotate through different ones while they were making breakfast.
Sarah Collins:They learned to cook early on because then they were both moving and actually my younger son in there as well. So they're all moving with a purpose, getting their needs met, but then able to focus on what I was saying. My only thing was you can't be talking because then you can't be listening, but you can move with a purpose and I, on this day, memories that'll pop up, I'm laughing this morning my son, cause he gets them all and he'll text them out here and there, and it was like this pizza crust or something that they were like kneading at the counter and his hands it's in the picture like you can't. It's blurry cause you can't even see like how hard he's moving, and so he's like slamming, and my youngest son is sitting next to him with his pointer finger out like poking at it and my daughter's watching and he was like he just sent it to like our family group chat and my husband was like, yep, that's all he said.
Sarah Collins:My daughter was like on brand, and I was like, yeah, those were the days. That's how we did it. We made it so that everybody could be having opportunities to meet their needs next to each other or we're able to advocate to separate.
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Dr. Amy Moore:Okay, so I want to tell you about a study that I read and just have you give your thoughts on the findings. So this was a 2021 study out of Monash University where researchers examined how sensory processing relates to executive function, and in that study, the strongest single correlation was between body awareness and emotion regulation. So can you speak to that association Like why does poor body awareness impact emotional regulation? To me, those seem so far separate, right?
Sarah Collins:So think about if you are, let's say, it's like a rainy day, right, and you are, you're laying down on the couch all day long and you're watching TV or whatever. And then you get up and you're like, oh my gosh, I haven't eaten and I haven't gone to the bathroom and I like, all of a sudden, now that you're moving, you're more aware of what's going on inside your body, and then you're emotional, right. Then you're able to configure out wait, what's going on with all these things that are happening all at one time, and then you need to control that emotion. Right? It required that movement or that proprioception. So, in that, proprioception is another term for this body awareness here Now, I haven't read that specific article, but that would be my off the cuff kind of answer and we've actually researched how interoception and proprioception are even genetically linked, right?
Sarah Collins:And so kiddos who struggle with proprioception or that body awareness often also struggle with interoception. So we have to work with them for both. These are kids that are more likely to. When you're like I can, I'm noticing that you're having a hard time here. You're writing off the side of the paper and you're slouching in your chair, you're falling down. You need to get up and move and no, I'm not going to do that. So they're not necessarily as aware inside of their body, and then they're resisting what you're saying. So we need to increase that proprioception or that body awareness, so that then they're able to be more alert as to what's going on inside of their body and then we can help to regulate it more.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, my one of my kids I won't say which one one of my kids went from zero to 60 from hangriness. And he, when I would point that out, he would explode because I would recognize has it been a while since you have eaten, do you think you might need to eat something? And he would catch me mid sentence no need to eat, I'm not hungry. Would lose his mind at me if I would point out that, and I knew that was the problem. But he was not able to recognize his own hunger cues.
Dr. Amy Moore:Either he was too busy or too distracted or just didn't understand what his body was telling him. How do you train that?
Sarah Collins:Yeah so.
Dr. Amy Moore:Kelly.
Sarah Collins:Mailer is the guru and we're talking about specializing right. The guru as far as research and work on interoception. And I will be honest with you, when I graduated from OT school which was 2008, so not that long ago I literally interception wasn't on the map yet, like we were not even talking about it. And so this is where OTs are still we're researching, we're learning right alongside with everybody else and recognizing wow, this is a piece of the puzzle that we've missed for so long. Even kids that they've been to therapy and they can name every single coping skill. Oh yeah, I should take a deep breath. Oh yeah, I should start my day with it. But then in the moment, are they doing any of those things? Not a chance, because they don't have that connection to the body. As far as how this will literally help to control or to help them, who wants to be screaming and yelling at their parents? Like that's not. I'm sure your son didn't wake up in the morning and be like yep, today's another day where I'm going to go yell at my mom, can't wait. That's not how people want to be, and so we have to help them. To make that connection.
Sarah Collins:Kelly has done amazing work on developing a curriculum even to help children to understand their bodies. That she starts even with things where you are confirming visually or with your sound or smell, because those are the senses that are easier to interpret. So she, the first activity in this curriculum that she has is you put your hand in water and then you're looking at it and you can see, yep, my hand is wet. I'm not just feeling that, with my eyes closed I can see it. My hand is wet, but it's also cold or hot, whichever, or how does that make you feel? Are you uncomfortable or do you like that?
Sarah Collins:So she goes through all of that work and then begins to get more in depth as time goes on, because we're trying to give that connection to children so that then they are more aware enough to advocate Like, yes, I am hungry and I do need to eat, and it is making me less able to focus on what I need to do and even to listen to what you're saying. So that I've had families that I've worked with who literally have used that as part of their language arts curriculum for a while. Because if you think about all of that description and describing that you're doing, that's all adjectives, right? We're learning all of that. We're learning how to say it, how to talk through it, how to write it and journal about it. Let's be functional and teaching our kids within their bodies and how that ties over to academia, a little bit of science too.
Sandy Zamalis:Sarah, how often, when you have a client whose child is struggling in these areas, how often do you also have to help the parent with the same understanding of their own body? Because I feel as adults since this is like you just said technically in the literature that there are plenty of adults who don't have these skills either. And so they can't necessarily help their child without someone like you to be the middle person to help them both see it in themselves.
Sarah Collins:I would, since all I do now is work with families. I don't directly work with children anymore. I work only with parents on understanding the why and how they can work through their homeschools. I would say all of the time. But one of the beautiful things of parenting is that we are able to learn alongside of our children, and it doesn't have to be that we know everything and then we're just like, boom, this is what you need to know. But it's that we can do this together. We just need to find the right resources, and then it doesn't matter if I knew whether I was hungry or needed to go to the bathroom or cramps or whatever before, or if I'm learning it right alongside with you. It doesn't matter. The point is that we're getting from not knowing to knowing and not being able to interpret, to interpret and not being able to advocate, to advocate and we're going to do it together, or I'm going to either teach it to you and learn right before you, or I'm going to learn alongside of you.
Dr. Amy Moore:Well, I'm sure you get lots of parents with aha moments then, yeah, oh man, I'm doing the same thing, or I do that too, or that explains everything about my own childhood right, I'm having a meltdown at three o'clock and I actually haven't eaten anything all day, okay. So, speaking of how you work with parents, talk to our listeners about how you do work with them and what are those opportunities. What do you offer? Cause I'm sure our parents that are listening are ready to connect with you. I would love that.
Sarah Collins:Come and connect. So I have lots of different options, and the reason I do that is because families all have different needs, right? So I have what I call three different ways, like coaching and consultations and communication, and now that I've done it, I'm like they're all sound the same, so that's really just confusing but we'll get there.
Sarah Collins:I need Sandy to find me, come and work with me, come and fix this. But coaching I do just if parents are already in this. But a lot of times you've been going to OT for a while, or your kid has an IEP at school and so they're getting OT services there. But the missing piece is your understanding as a parent, and that happens frequently I would say the majority of time and I've talked with my OT colleagues about this frequently as well, because when we're working within a system whether it's the medical system or the school system and we are bound by requirements and time and all this, it's not that we don't, as OTs, don't want to go and have long conversations with parents, it's that it doesn't. When we have to adhere to these rules, we're not able to in the same way, and so this parent education is often the missing piece. So I've worked with several families who are in OT and I work with their OT and them and the middleman, or am the first go person, and then I'm connecting with an OT who is either, if you're homeschooling, who is homeschooling friendly and not going to be like how do you socialize your children and so that they understand the homeschooling community too, and you all feel safe in where you're going. So that's one piece. Is just the coaching. Hey, I have a question. Give me an answer. What's the best resource, kind of thing.
Sarah Collins:I do more in-depth homeschool consultations for families who want that, where we dive in nitty gritty to what is going on in your whole day. Where is your child struggling? We do some assessment and surveys, things like that, to try to come up with that why and then make suggestions as far as what can you do to. That's a lot of the times where I'm like we need some cognitive training, but you need to go here or you need to. This is how we can change and adapt the environment, or both at the same time. And then the communication is I do lots of public speaking. I'm at all not all, but I'm at several conferences this summer.
Sarah Collins:I don't know when this will air, but as of May 15th 2025, I have a children's picture book coming out. That is all on this conversation around. How do we talk about sensory processing with our kids? It's these little chameleons that are on their way to the cafeteria or to the cafe, and I wrote it with my really good friend, jackie, who is actually a client of mine and she was the illustrator. And we talk how do you talk to your kids about this? The one brother was very overwhelmed by the experience and then the other, chameleon, is like spinning and because she's having to wait for a brother to get into the experience. That's a good way to communicate with our kids about sensory processing.
Sandy Zamalis:I love that. I know we're getting close on the end, but with you going through all that, my brain started thinking what do you think is probably the number one thing parents can do in the early years, because we're seeing more and more of these sensory processing issues, and not to get into the weeds of what's causing it, but how, as a parent, can we try to incorporate more things in our parenting and our home life? To help build these skills naturally.
Sarah Collins:Yeah. So my number one thing would be, when they are little, to be outside and moving around with them as often as possible, because when you are outside it's a natural environment, obviously. So it's not the same as having to interpret all the fluorescent lights Even my cheeks are red right now because of my light coming down but being and there's natural experiences of when you're crawling and you're feeling it on your grass, on your hands, but you're going uphill and or downhill and how that changes your body. So that's the proprioception. The smells are more natural. Like just be and do with them and then you can label that stuff with your kids of how I feel that grass on my hands or that feels prickly or whatever. However you want to talk about it, narrate what you're doing. This is we call that declarative language, Like I am just telling you exactly what I'm doing while I'm there, and that opens the conversation for sensory experiences. From here on out, just be, do life with your kids and talk about it.
Dr. Amy Moore:Yeah, I love that and we use that with infants all the time.
Dr. Amy Moore:right, Even though they don't have the language, we want to talk to them as if they understand everything we're saying okay, now we're going to change your diaper and so I'm going to put you up here and let's buckle you in for safety. And we're narrating the process to grow their receptive language, if nothing else, right, and so I love that we shouldn't stop doing that. Once our kids are talking, we continue to say I think that's one great way to teach our kids how to cook, right. It's like we're talking through here's what we're doing, and so if we carry that into just playtime, yeah, I'm not going to say that every mom has to get out there and climb a tree but if you are and you're like listen, I'm like pulling my hand here and pulling my body up oh my gosh, I'm stronger than I thought.
Sarah Collins:Or, wow, this takes so much more effort than I thought. Great, you're doing this and you're explaining to your children what they're doing. But listen to how. I've already talked about what I'm feeling inside my body. This is harder than what I thought it was going to be. And you can even talk about, like, how does this feel in my hands? All right, you may not want to climb a tree, although I think that's awesome and I think we should all be doing that. It's really good for your strength and your vestibular system. Make it happen. But you could do the same thing when you're gardening. You could do the same thing when you're petting the dog. You could any of it.
Dr. Amy Moore:Right, so your website is.
Sarah Collins:HomeschoolOTcom Super easy. Okay, and then there are links to your podcast right there on your website right, the OT is in and then there are links to your podcast right there on your website. Right, the OT is in. The OT is in. You can find that anywhere Apple Podcasts, spotify, all the places the OT is in. Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore:Sarah, is there anything that you didn't get to say that you would like to leave our guests with today?
Sarah Collins:No, except here's my no, and except I hope that you feel not from this conversation, not like, oh my gosh, all of these things that I haven't done or that I have yet to do, but recognize that if tomorrow you wake up, or today, this afternoon, if you're listening to this and you just do a self-assessment of your own self, of like, how does your head feel, how's your shoulders, how's your stomach, when you then are able to communicate that around with kids or whoever is around you, you've got the first step to moving forward right. And if you can recognize that language you're communicating and then feel comfortable with building your team, if you need support with that, then I think we're on the right path.
Dr. Amy Moore:All right, sarah Collins, thanks so much for being with us today. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. All right listeners, that's all we have for you today. If you like our show, we would love it if you would leave us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. You can also find us on social media, at the Brainy Moms. If you'd rather see our faces than hear our voices, or maybe you want to do both at the same time we are on YouTube at thebrainymoms, and if you want to see what we do some cognitive training demonstrations go over to TikTok and find Sandy at thebraintrainerlady. So, look, that is all the smart stuff that we have for you today. We hope you feel a little smarter after being with us for this last hour. We're going to catch you next time.
