The Brainy Moms

Homeschooling Tips For Military & Special-Needs Families | Natalie Mack & Ashley Barta

• Dr. Amy Moore • Season 5 • Episode 532

Share episode

Are you a military or special needs family feeling torn between stability, services, and what your child actually needs to thrive? We sit down with Natalie Mack and Ashley Barta, two military homeschool leaders who have navigated frequent moves, special needs, and high school planning—then turned those lessons into practical guidance for families everywhere. Their stories show how homeschooling can transform from a last resort into a flexible, confidence-building path that adapts to your life instead of demanding you adapt to it.

We unpack the “now what?” moment after withdrawing from school and offer a clear starting plan: distinguish online school from true homeschooling, take a short deschooling reset, and use interests to weave core subjects into meaningful projects. If calculus or chemistry makes you sweat, we share how outsourcing, co-ops, tutors, and dual enrollment let parents become curators, not solo teachers. For high school, we flip the script: begin with the destination—college, trades, service, entrepreneurship—and reverse-map requirements with transcripts that reflect real initiative, not just seat time.

Special needs families will find concrete strategies that honor therapy schedules, energy windows, and real progress. Ashley explains how to embed OT, speech, and PT goals at home, use puzzles, games, and assistive tech for literacy and math, and embrace the power of the pause. We also tackle the socialization myth with a richer picture of sibling bonds, multi-age learning, and intentional community. For military families and anyone moving often, we highlight how virtual networks serve as lifelines to local co-ops, park days, and inclusive groups—plus what leaders can do to genuinely welcome neurodivergent learners and short-term volunteers.

If you’re craving educational choice with confidence, this conversation is your homeschool roadmap—practical, hopeful, and real about the work involved. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs encouragement, and leave a review to help more families discover tools that make learning lighter and life-giving. What’s one change you’ll try this week?

ABOUT US:
The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her co-hosts have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. If you love us, add us to your playlist and follow us on social media!

CONNECT WITH US:
Website: www.TheBrainyMoms.com
Email: BrainyMoms@gmail.com
Social Media: @TheBrainyMoms

Visit our sponsor's website: www.LearningRx.com

Dr. Amy Moore:

Hi, Smart Moms and Dads. Welcome to another episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast brought to you today by Learning RX Brain Training Centers. I'm Dr. Amy Moore. I am here with Sandy Zamalis. And Sandy and I are gonna have two guests today. So we're excited to tell you all about them, and we're gonna start with our first one, Natalie Mack. So Natalie is an author, a TEDx speaker, an educational consultant, a podcaster, and a military home educator with over 23 years of experience serving military homeschool families. She is also the founder of the Military Homeschoolers Association. And then we are also joined by Ashley Barda. Ashley is the special education program coordinator for the Military Homeschool Association. She brings over a decade of experience in education with a focus on special education, curriculum development, and educational technology. As both a professional and a mother to a special needs child, she combines her academic experience and personal insight to support military families. Welcome, Ashley and Natalie. Thank you.

Natalie Mack:

Thank you.

Sandy Zamalis:

We're so glad you guys are here.

Natalie Mack:

Yes, this would be exciting. We also won the podcast, so great.

Sandy Zamalis:

Yes, we love having you. So we have a big heart for homeschooling families. Both Amy and I were homeschooling parents. And then the fun connection is that we also have a military background as well, both of us in different ways. I was a military brat. Amy had a husband in the services and served with education in the military realm. So we want to kind of highlight who you are and what you do first, and then talk about homeschooling in a much broader perspective for our listeners. Because you guys bring a lot of wealth of information with how many years you've been homeschooling or in education or working with special needs students. So we want to make sure we get to talk about that today. So let's start off with Natalie. Give us a little bit more about who you are and how you started on your journey.

Natalie Mack:

So I am a retired Navy chaplain spouse, and we homeschooled 23 years, as I think Dr. Amy mentioned. We have our oldest are two girls, and then we have three boys. And we started homeschooling right before 9-11. And it was a transitional year for us not just to begin homeschooling, but also we relocated from Maryland to Camp Pendleton, California. And the homeschooling experience in the military has been amazing. We love to experience different cultures, relocate. I know that's odd because most military families, it's like, don't send me anywhere else. I'm trying to stay in one place. But we enjoyed it and we tried to make the best of it over the years. And we just launched our fifth child to college. And so on varying days, I'm okay and then I'm not okay. The emotions come. And so it's been an interesting past month. He's been in college and he's doing well. It's warm my mom's heart that didn't experience the same breath of emotion when the others were launched to college. And so it's been interesting this season, but I'm excited about it. We've been, like I said, on this journey for a long time. So I have a heart for my fellow military homeschoolers, military families in general. And I think out of that and some other reasons, I was felt compelled to start the nonprofit, which you know it didn't take me long to make that decision, but it's been a great opportunity to serve and continue serving. And serving with Ashley and the other board members has been phenomenal. I mean, gosh, God has blessed us with just amazing board members with passion and interest and just the vision to serve. It's a nonprofit, but I also worked part-time as a military outreach coordinator for Homeschool Legal Defense Association. So I was really busy with that. I travel a lot in that capacity, and then I have an LLC, and so I was super busy, and I thought I'll start it, and so it's been amazing. And so you'll hear from Ashley because she's one of many of all of our phenomenal board members that just have a heart to serve their fellow military homeschoolers.

Dr. Amy Moore:

I love that. Well, let's hear from you, Ashley. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are now.

Ashley Barta:

I actually started as an elementary education teacher in the kindergarten world. I worked for a very small school district, and I was the only kindergarten teacher, only one in my my department. I was it. It was a very small school district. I started a preschool program right there with them. So that was really fun to give back to the community in that way. And then I had my son who was diagnosed with epilepsy at a very early age, I think six months. And so I taught as long as I could, and I said, Okay, no more. I'm gonna start my own preschool. I can't just stay home, I have to keep doing. So my son went to school with me. We had our daughter, she was tooling around the preschool in a walker and joining the fun right there with us. And then the military said, Okay, it's time for you to leave. So then we went to Florida, I believe, and kind of went through the ringer of all of the special needs stuff that the military loves to put families through. You know, starting new services over, finding a new support system, that whole thing. Our son went to maybe three months of preschool in a public school, and I said, This is just this isn't working. I was a kindergarten teacher. How hard can this be? And now he is a sophomore in high school, and we have been homeschooling ever since. I guess in that realm of time, I'm homeschooling my kids. I've gotten two master's degrees, and I just kept going through the whole thing and formed my own LLC for education advocacy. And then Natalie and I joined arms, and the rest is history.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Well, that's a beautiful story. I mean, I we hear this all the time that you know, a lot of people started homeschooling out of some kind of necessity, whether it was, you know, because they were military and moving all the time, or because their kids were elite athletes and, you know, were always competing, or because their child had a special need and didn't feel like the public school could meet that prior to what we're seeing in today's culture with school violence and you know, the desire to make sure that our family values are being instilled in our schooling that might not align with a public school now or whatever, right? Like it's sort of evolved over the last couple of decades into something that's almost what we would consider a mainstream option.

Natalie Mack:

Yes, very much so, very mainstream. We had done some statistics. Actually, we actually pulled statistics from the US Census Household Pulse survey that was conducted during COVID. And the last survey and results came out September 2024, so a little bit over a year ago. But it was an amazing opportunity to see what the numbers look like in the families in the military to choose the homeschool. And so it has become such a mainstream option for specifically across the community, as we see the numbers have risen. But for the military homeschool community, it's double the national average. So we're at high numbers of families. And so you mentioned Dr. Amy traditionally that families in the military choose their homeschool because of the relocation. But you also, the things you touched on about the school violence and still in values, the special needs, which Ashley knows dearly from her experience, is a lot of families are choosing their homeschool because of those as well. The cyberbullying is and it's just the just a whole lot of things that have been going on, and it's causing this massive growth that is unprecedented. And so I see it as a movement, and so and it's a valid option. You're right. Families are really looking for other options for their children, and homeschooling is an amazing one among a lot of others, too.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I know that so when I went through my you know teacher education program a long time ago, because you know, I'm not gonna age myself in the last century. So in the late 80s, homeschooling was on the fringe, right? We it just was not something that the average person really even considered. I mean, it those were extreme situations for the most part. And so I sort of came into my love and passion for homeschool kicking and screaming, right? It was really, you know, when one of our kids fell through the cracks in public school with, you know, the them being unable to adequately implement his IEP, that I said, well, we have to do something different. And I disenrolled him without any prior conversation. Like my husband and I just stood in the office and said, We're done here. We're disenrolling him. And then got in the car with our seventh grader and said, Now what? Right? It just happens. And then you know, we have one who went straight through public school because it worked for him. And again, with our youngest, we said, Yeah, this isn't working. So now what? Right? And we just love that there's so much support and so many options and so much that's available in terms of a homeschooling community that truly looks out for its own now.

Natalie Mack:

That is so true, yeah. And we hear that all the time. I think Ashley, I know I do, is that the what now, right? You know, you people are crying out for help, like I withdrew, I just did it, I did it, I went in, I tried, so they were not coming back, and they're really excited, and then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, what do I do now? Hits, and they get they're afraid. So then they are trying to figure out do I make the right choice? What do I do? How do I do this? And the kids are looking at you, you know, and you're looking at them and trying to figure it out. But eventually there's so much, like you said, support now. It's a different, it's a different environment.

Dr. Amy Moore:

There's so many resources, support right, and the outsourcing that's available as well, right? Like if you can't teach calculus, that's okay. That's okay, right. Somebody can. Yes, somebody is out there. Plenty of support.

unknown:

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. You don't actually have to learn calculus for the first time that you can you can get help for sure. So which that was my biggest fear, right? And I worked full-time, I've always worked full-time. So how you know, how do you homeschool your children when both parents work full-time as well, right? There you have to have some outsourcing and flexible scheduling and the ability to say, hey, it's okay if we're going to do it this way.

Sandy Zamalis:

Yes. Exactly. So let's say you've got a family, they've given you the call and they've given you the now what? Now what do I do? Conversation. How do you start off with families to help them kind of set up set themselves up for success in homeschooling once they've made that decision?

Ashley Barta:

You know, I I got a lot of these phone calls actually during COVID because we had a bunch of military families on base and they said, okay, we're going to homeschool this year. And my first question was, are you online public schooling or are you really homeschooling? Because that's a big question. You know, that's are you getting all of the curriculum handed to you and they're just doing it robotically through the school, or are you creating that homeschool curriculum enrichment? And then I look for the excitement pieces. What are they into? My daughter is super into art. So how do we incorporate art into the yucky subjects like math or some of those other things? Because you don't want to do eight subjects in eight hours all day long and it's boring, or you know, or if you have six kids, how do you homeschool them all? Let's gather around the couch and read a story, or let's go around the table. And game schooling is a really fun one, too. So I think that's the biggest thing. And when you're pulling a kid from public school, I always say just de-school a little bit because it's not the same. Just go on a like a week week vacation, enjoy those museums and those zoos and all the things that your family doesn't have a chance to do, and then start attacking it. Learning style quizzes, or when they're older, it's probably eye-opening to those high school students too. How they learn what they learn, get them involved.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, yeah. What they want to learn. Right. And how they want to learn it, right? Like that was always one of my favorite questions is what do we know? What do we want to know? And how do we find out?

Natalie Mack:

Right. Yes, yeah. That's super important. Just kind of tapping into it. And it depends on their age, right? You can start helping even young kids recognize that homeschooling allows them to learn things they're interested in and give them a chance to figure out what those things are. Because someone, you know, if you've pivoted from a brick and mortar, you may not have been asked that question. Like, what do you want to learn? What are you interested in? Because it's it's really hard for a classroom teacher to ask that question of all the students, and then they all want to go do these things, right? But in homeschooling, you can ask that, and you can help your students realize that learning is 24-7, it's always, it's not just confined to a particular like classroom or textbook learning. It's it's field trips, it's all the things that really pour into a person. And then when they get in high school, it's I would say that high school, and I know it's a scary time because a lot of families, you know, even once that have successfully homeschooled from kindergarten to eighth, when they start looking, oh, high school, oh, I don't think so. I'm not gonna do that, I'm not capable. And I think it's the fear and it's the perception that now it really counts. Like before kindergarten to eighth, we were playing school. It didn't count, you know, but now it counts because the future is beyond that. But the thing is that it's an amazing four years journey, right? Or maybe five for some families, it just depends uh of like a blank art canvas. Like I think about you can just paint this amazing masterpiece that is each child based on who they are, what they want to learn, you know, where they want to go next. And so helping families just realize that you have all this freedom and flexibility, and that's not a scary thing, that's really a good thing. And then pull the students in and say, wow, this is an opportunity for you to really shape what your next four years are gonna look like. And it doesn't have to look like anybody else's, you know, because you're a unique person, and that's what we've tried to do with our children. And I'm not saying every day it's easy, you know, but over, you know, when you look back, it was phenomenal. And I think that it made a big difference in approaching it from that angle.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So for our listeners who are saying, yes, but there are you know requirements and laws, and there are certain objectives that we have to meet. How do you balance that? How do you balance really drilling down on what your children's interests are and their learning preferences with the those laws and requirements? How do you balance that?

Natalie Mack:

Most of the laws aren't so restrictive that you can't have a good balance, even for families who unschool. You really need to look at kind of like how where's the student going next is what I always start with, especially. I do a lot of the high school to college consultations and working with families because I just kind of love that time period. And I always say, where are you going next? Like, what where do you want to go next? Is it college? If so, any idea like what you want to study and what type of college? Is it gonna be maybe a community college, which is down the street from home and you're gonna stay home, or is it gonna be a four-year university or what type of university and help them begin to look into what the next four years needs to be like based on where they want to go in the future after high school, and then look at the laws of the state where you physically reside, which is a challenge for military families because we are somewhere two or three years and then we reside somewhere else. But for the most part, just look at the laws and say, okay, if the student's going to college, you know, you're gonna you need the what I call the five C's, which are the core subjects. But how you get those can vary. Like for an unschooler, getting those things may look a lot different than someone who is a traditional, maybe a Becca curriculum user. And you have that flexibility and that freedom, and the laws don't tell you that it has to be done a certain way. So, in that is the freedom. So you're in a house, but your rooms, each house looks different because you have different rooms and different things that you can do, and you don't have to be so confined and worried about making you know mistakes as you go along. So that's pretty much how I help families as much as I can. And Ashley, she you may have a different or something to add to it, too.

Ashley Barta:

You know, what you said was perfect. You know, I think it makes a lot of sense when it when you are in those older years. As far as like a special needs child, that looks completely different because you have your core subjects, but you may approach them in a different way. I, for my son, who is a sophomore this year, we rely heavily on those extra services, occupational therapy, speech therapy, physical therapy, and kind of look at the goals that they want to hit, and then we kind of bring them back home and incorporate them in different ways. An example, I guess. We'll just use my life as an example because it's fun, right? My son has he went through where he was learning on goal, and then we went through a regression where learning wasn't really in the forefront, it was more or less backseat. We're worried more about medical than we are about learning CVC words. Um so now he is really excited about counting and number letters, but he's into the puzzles. So, how do we get him to spell? How do we get him to count in order? How do we even introduce adding and subtracting puzzles? So let's do 50 puzzles a day, but that's our school. So I think that's the thing a lot of special needs parents are like, oh, I have I can't homeschool, I need that school for those therapies, or I'm not, I can't, I'm not equipped to do this. And I think if you just hone in on what your child is showing you, and if you can slow down and look at that versus just going through the motions as a parent and really looking at what they need in that moment as a special needs child or a special needs parent, I you know you can rest when you want to rest or when you need to rest, you can learn and explore and work hard when you have those pockets of time and energy as a medically complex kid. And that's that's where regulations are there, but I think as a homeschooler, you can be creative with how you're meeting those expectations. Because if my child was in a public school, I would have an IEP, so he probably wouldn't be learning high school geometry as a sophomore, he would be doing life skills and different things like that. I always tell parents too, comprehensive literacy is huge, and that wasn't a thing even when I went to college as a young person or even as a young teacher. It there wasn't anything. So you hone into those other professionals that you have at your disposal, and they can really help you with resources and all of those extra niches of information as a homeschooler.

Sandy Zamalis:

Yeah. I uh that's really I love that you're talking about it from that perspective, Ashley, because I know that there's a lot of families who get hung up on that piece of I just don't have the expertise. And they that happens in homeschool too, because we had plenty of I can't teach my kids, right? I because I can't teach calculus. You get hung up on the expertise piece of it. Can you talk to our listeners about really the benefit of homeschooling a special needs child?

Ashley Barta:

You know, and I keep saying because I'm thinking. I think a big blessing for us is you can benefit in the pause. So you can really slow down and enjoy them at the level that they're at. I remember sitting on the other side of the table as a kindergarten teacher in an IEP meeting, and you talk about all the things that they need help in, and you're that's the goal of the IEP is making those goals so they can hit them, and it can be so disheartening to a parent because you want to celebrate your child in their perfect form, and sometimes you go into those IEP meetings and you feel like a complete failure. So, in a in the homeschool world, you are constantly yes, worried about all the things because the worry doesn't go away. As parents, the worry never goes away, but you can celebrate all of those amazing things for our son. Bring back the puzzle and the iPad and some of those tools that we use. You know, you can worry about him never counting like a neurotypical kid, and then you give him an app on an iPad, and all of a sudden he's doing a dot-to-dot and counting to 15 independently. And I don't have to worry about that anymore. We did it, but we did it in a game, relaxed fashion that we weren't worried about him taking a test or being on a developmental marker or failing the system, he's being celebrated for who he is, and that's amazing. And also sibling relationships are being built. If my kids were in public school, they would be separated for eight hours a day, and then they would come home, and my neurotypical would do their homework and go to all of their activities, and my son would be with us or going to his therapies, and by homeschooling them, we've built this family unit, and as a SPED parent, you worry who's gonna take care of your Sed child when you're gone. I don't have to worry about that as a homeschooler because I have created a family unit that my my kids are close, and so as a SPED parent or SPED homeschooler or whatever you want to call me, you know, you we can build that relationship piece in with the academics, and you're not even realizing it because you're just enjoying your family unit. So I think that's so as a so if you want to really know my reason, roundabout reason, is is just enjoying the pause, is taking those small gifts in pockets, and I won't sugarcoat it and say it's easy because sped life is a whole nother animal. But if you can enjoy the pause and and celebrate those small wins and those relationships instead of what they can't do or what they struggle with doing, I think that that's the biggest gift we've had as a SPED homeschooling family. And then being military, we can take vacations when my husband has off, and we can school when he's busy, and when he has a day off, he can then go to therapy or do the homeschooling activities with our kids. So I don't think he would have as much impact on their daily lives as he does if we weren't homeschooling, if that makes sense. I think that that's a gift in itself as well.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I love that with both of those stories that you just told, about the relationship-building piece that you get to nurture during the day by having your family in the home and the ability for both parents to get to participate based on their schedules also nurtures those relationships. I think you also answered the question that criticism about socialization that we typically hear about homeschooling, right? Where if you look at a typical public school day, right, we put kids who are the same age in a classroom and expect them to be silent for the majority of the day, right? They get 15 or 20 minutes of recess and maybe some lunchtime to talk to one another, but that's about it. That's the socialization that you get in school. Versus you just told these two beautiful scenarios of how not only is your family socializing as a unit, a multi-age unit, mind you, but the way that those relationships get nurtured lifelong through all of that, you're socializing all day in a way that is building lifelong skills, lifelong relationships, all while learning at the same time. I love that.

unknown:

Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis:

I think it's like the ultimate in what an IEP is supposed to be as well. And you kind of alluded to that, Ashley, but it's, you know, an IEP is an individualized education plan. Well, who can do that better than a mom who really cares about their child's journey and all of the things that they're trying to help them achieve in life? So you alluded, but I yeah, it's that IEP. If you really truly want that IEP for your child and you're capable and able to do it, then there's a blessing in that, that you're really truly giving your child an individualized education that meets their needs and meets them where they're at.

Ashley Barta:

And there isn't that homeschooling. You can say it's an IEP because most kids can do the standard curriculum and you know, other kids need that specialized plan. But as homeschoolers, we can create an IEP if we so choose, or if the school uh the state needs that as a standard, or those sorts of things. But as homeschoolers, we're creating those individual plans for our kids every time. Yes, by default, exactly. And I actually tell a lot of homeschoolers you can create an IEP, but really it's take five goals and use those five goals until they match they hit them and then push that envelope or push that marker a little further. And that's exactly what it is. You don't need a document to tell you, but some people like the document.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, and I think the difference too is in a school system when you have a child who has a special need, there's very strict documentation required in order to qualify for those IEPs and 504 plans. Whereas as a homeschool parent, you can say there are nuances in the needs that my children have, that I don't need specific documentation from specific licensed professionals in order to make these adaptations, right? I get to say this is what I feel like my child needs in this season, whether it's a formal diagnosis or not, and create your curriculum around those needs.

Ashley Barta:

And correct me if I'm wrong, Natalie, but no year has ever looked the same for us. We you know, every year of homeschool is so different.

Natalie Mack:

Yes, very much every year and every student, and you know, it varies constantly. So I think that, like you said, creating that plan is you're gonna do that anyway, right? And and there's so many resources though for the families that do have the sped children who maybe they aren't sure if you have a student that has a dyslexia, for example, there's resources available, and you know, you still can go for the private therapy. So this a homeschool community has figured out how to make it work. And I have had conversations with professionals in the schools who are really in a quandary, wondering how. How are homeschoolers handling this? How do they, how they, how dare a parent withdraw a student that has special needs from a school? Like they almost see it as neglectful, right? Like somehow you're gonna make do worse. I'm like, no, that parent, most committed parents, which are most people, right? Are gonna do the best they can with their child. They're gonna want the best, they're gonna pursue the best. And homeschool parents, we we find the resource that we need for our children. And so the advocacy that comes with homeschooling that parents bring, it's not the same advocacy that parents bring when the kids are in public school. And I'm not to say that parents don't care about what's happening in their child getting the resources, definitely. But I think we take charge of it and we make it happen, and we have the agency to do that, which is a different level of involvement, I think. And so, yeah, and there's so many things I can say about it. You can see I'm super massive filling. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Well, and let me add to that too, right? Like so I mentioned before that each of my children needed a different path for education. And the mama bear that my two who benefited from some sort of homeschooling, the mama bear that created in me to meet their needs benefited my child who went straight through public school as well, because I was still able to advocate for him in public school in a in the same way, right? Like I took that same energy that I was pouring into, okay, these two need this. And I could take it to the school and go, no, I'm opting him out of this testing that isn't absolutely necessary. Why would I create that type of anxiety for my child? Right. And so you can apply that.

Natalie Mack:

Yeah. You can apply it. Yeah, definitely. Because now you realize you have the power to do it. Like you, you can make it happen. And so I love that you were able to do that because that made such a difference, I'm sure. And you know, the schools aren't that aren't really used to parents really knowing that they ultimately can have and make these decisions for their children. And when a student, when a parent comes in and is advocating in that way, it could be I've had parents say, Wow, the student, the school didn't know what to do. Like they, you know, they push back on it. And but an informed parent who's like a the mama bear, like you're gonna go in and you're gonna say, No, I've already researched the rules and I know what my student is, what's accessible and what I have the note, you know, the ability to say no to. And uh really, which is what I think school districts ideally want is engaged parents who can do that. But then when it happens, it's like, what do you do with this, right?

Dr. Amy Moore:

Well, and or they're like, Well, you're gonna have to sign this paper.

Natalie Mack:

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Okay, okay, hurry up then.

Natalie Mack:

Right, right, right. Yeah, it's like, you know, you're like, is that it? Uh here, let me done. So it's it's interesting. And I will say I'm not anti-public school at all. I am really honestly as passionate as I am about homeschooling and how seeing it work with so many families, I do know that not everyone's called to homeschool and not every student does best in a homeschool environment. And I know some homeschoolers may listen and go, I can't believe she said that. But I think really for me, my goal is what's going to be best for the family, what's going to be best for that child. And as much as I want to say homeschool them, I have to also first say what's best. And it may not be best for that child, right? To homeschool. And so you really have to, the same freedom that I think we want as homeschoolers to be able to make the decisions, we have to also allow families to make the decision that works best for them. And not to bash them in that decision, but to say, how can we be part of supporting and making sure that all kids rise, all kids are successful in whatever environment the family is going to choose. I think that's ultimately the goal.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Oh, amen. You preached that because yeah, because think about those parents in the 80s, in the 90s, who were fighting for their freedom to homeschool their kids and were getting all of that criticism and not any support because they wanted to be able to choose what was best for their family and best for their child, right? And so it's now it could be on the flip side that you're absolutely right. Just because you want to homeschool your children, just because you have chosen this, doesn't mean that is going to work for every family, even though we would want it to.

Natalie Mack:

Right, exactly, exactly. And I, you know, I know that's a hard thing sometimes for traditional homeschoolers to hear. And I consider myself a traditional homeschooler, but in speaking to homeschools all over the country and just starting to look at education and getting more into the space of like, wow, you know, yes, would I want, you know, everyone to homeschool? Probably, you know, I probably I don't know what that everyone look homeschooling would look like. So I kind of hesitate, but maybe, but I really want educated students, confident students, kids who know who they are and who know what they're interested in, world changers, you know, peacemakers, you know, all the idealistic. And I think that we have to kind of look at embrace those things and help as a community, kids to get there and families to feel empowered with whatever decision they make. So I don't know, maybe that's idealistic, but that's me.

Dr. Amy Moore:

No, I think that's realistic.

Sandy Zamalis:

Susie was a working professional and a mom whose son Matthew was kicked out of preschool for attention and sensory challenges. She tried everything to help him, but knew something was missing until a friend pointed her to Learning RX. After seeing the one-on-one brain training programs in person, she left her profession as a physical therapist and opened a Learning RX Center. Her first clients were her own boys, and Matthew's executive function skills like attention, memory, and processing speed soared. And now he's a robotics engineering major in a college and on the dean's list. What an amazing Learning Rx testimonial. We're looking for parents like Susie who want to make learning easier and faster for students, change lives in their communities, and own a business that they can feel good about. Visit openascenter.com. That's openestcenter.com to learn more and take the first step with Learning RX. Well, I have a question that I think you guys are perfectly suited to answer. Because I was been in the homeschool realm for since the you know early 2000s as a homeschooling parent. And I think one of the things as an observer of just homeschooling and how it's grown and all the changes that have happened, I feel like community has shifted a lot in how we build community in the homeschool world. And especially with COVID and you guys are serving a global, you know, a global partnership. You've got families all over the world. How do you help moms and dads find community in that homeschool space? Because it's lonely, it's hard, as we've kind of alluded to in a couple of our, you know, discussions that we've had. And community is just so important because you need that for encouragement. You need to be able to brainstorm and you know talk to people to help you troubleshoot and figure out next steps, or there's always someone out there who's experiencing something similar to what you're experiencing, even though it's unique to your family. So, how do you guys do that? How do you go about creating that community when you're serving people from all over the world?

Natalie Mack:

Wow, that's a good question. Ashley, you want to go or you want me to go?

Ashley Barta:

I think I think Natalie can talk to the military side of it because she's got a lot of experience with all different types of communities in the military realm. And SPED can be completely different because if you have military and sped in together, it can be challenging because sometimes you can't be out in the community as much as you would love to be. So for me, I really tap into that virtual community, you know, whether it's the local community, because I want to be able to see if I can get out to some of those events, but not always. And being able to comment on something or to help another spouse or another homeschooling mom, and it's from the comfort of my couch at midnight when it's the only quiet time I get, is a is a beautiful thing, really. Or if I'm lesson planning at 12 o'clock at night, I don't know why I keep choosing that number one. I didn't even realize it. We're all up at 12. That's what I think. If you're home, you're curriculum planning and you're like, wait, I remember seeing something from someone in this group. You can pull up those groups. And I remember as a public school teacher, and it was the highlights magazines or the teacher magazines, and you'd rip and you'd file in your folders, and that was the only way you had ideas. And now it's Pinterest, it's online forums, it's communities, it's out school, it's all of those different pieces. I would say that's been my biggest community is the virtual community. And while I still love to squeeze a real person and have coffee with a real person and let my kids play and interact with other kids and those things as a military special needs spouse, mom, homeschooler. If I didn't have that virtual community, I would be very lost. And I think that being able to have some of my best friends that are homeschoolers, our kids can zoom calls and talk about science experiments or do a geography project online together or those types of things, we couldn't do that without that. So I think that's that's my biggest community builder. I love the in-person communities, and I and we wouldn't those are super important as well. But when you move as much as we do, or limited to what we can do out in the community if you have a medically complex kid, sometimes like those meetups aren't the easiest. So I would just say virtual is one of my biggest life jackets that I wear.

Natalie Mack:

You know, Ashley brought up a good point because increasingly I've heard from families who have children that are, you know, neurodivergent, and it's not always easy to find a co-op or support group that will say, Welcome, you're welcome, that you feel welcomed. And it's hard for families. And so I can see where that virtual comes in handy and it's just a lifeline. And you know, my heart goes out. On one hand, you know, a homeschooling mom that doesn't have any special needs experience and her children are not neurodivergent, she's the teacher and she's feeling like, oh, I don't know how to, I don't know how to engage with a student that has special needs in my classroom. And so as a co-op director, you're trying to go alongside and understand that mom's concern, but also you want the students to be able to come in and feel like they have a place to come and that the special needs families have a place in it. You're welcome. And so I don't know if we figured it out well in the homeschool community. Like I feel like I still a lot of families have said that they can't find co-ops that are welcoming to them. And so I don't know, it's it breaks my heart. I think there's still some work to be done. The in general, though, the community for the military is, you know, we understand the importance of community because we do move. Whether we're homeschooling or not, we're going to be moving. Most families are moving pretty often. There are a few, you know, EFMP, what category five, where you just have to stay in place and things like that. But we understand the importance of finding community. And so with the homeschool community, I've always focused on trying to make sure that installations have a community, a co-op, a support group, so that families can at least say there's something here. How big it is, and if it's, you know, what it offers, it's hard to you can't really control that, right? Because someone else is there in place leading that group, but at least have some contact for families to be able to have that support. And it's funny because I've often said also, which is probably another hard thing because I've said it to moms when I've been speaking at conferences, and the moms you see them and then they go, you're right, but they go, you know, first, and that is that there are introvert moms, right? Who, and I'm an extrovert, so in case you didn't know, but introvert moms who have extroverted kids, and so I've had to say, listen, I can't say I understand because I'm an extrovert, but I do know that if you are introvert, I respect that. I know it, I know many of my friends are, and they, you know, like, hey, I'm gonna go with Natalie because she's gonna get us in the door, right? You know, but I understand what that's like, but at the same time, if you have kids who are extroverted who are craving that engagement and that interaction, there's plenty of things to do. So you have to figure out how often you're willing to like go out of the house for community and what that looks like, or do you bring community in, right? Do you bring invite your you know, your kids' friends come in, that best friend or that one or two friends come in? What does that look like? But you have to figure out what it looks like because it may be your need as a parent may be different than what your child's needs are, and figuring that out is a super important because a lot of times families will, I've had families that pivot from public school or private school in a homeschool, but they the idea, how do I want to say like that? It's a different environment from a brick and mortar where your kids either get dropped off or you take them or however, and most of all of whatever socially happens is within that. But for homeschooling, you you have to make that happen for your kids. And that's a different mindset for parents who are pivoting from brick and mortar. It's like we've pivoted because we want a better academic option, or we've pivoted because our child was being bullied, or we've pivoted because of XYZ. But oh my gosh, you mean now I have to do this too? I have to find community. You mean like I have to go out of my house? I have to go on field trips, I have to plan field trips. You know, you're asking me to volunteer in a nursery or a co-op. Like, really? I didn't sign up for that. But it's a mindset shift, right? That's super important because otherwise you're gonna not feel all of the beauty of homeschooling. Like it's part of the beauty is in community with other people who homeschool that you can say today was really hard. Like that bus went by and I was tempted to just open the door and kick everybody out and hope the bus driver stopped and put them all on that yellow bus. It didn't matter if it was a kindergarten or tenth grader, they all get on the same bus and going somewhere, right? Community will help you go. I had that kind of day too.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I love that. And I so believe it or not, I am actually an introvert. I'm a dramatic introvert, so it makes me look like an extrovert. No way. But I'm an extreme introvert. And I so it it was so hard for me to put on my shoes and leave the car to drive my youngest to yet another activity or class or program every day. Like, okay, now I gotta take him to music lessons. Now I gotta take him to his college course because he's only in eighth grade. He can't drive yet, right? Like it was, I felt like we spent half our lives in the car. Yes. And I, when he got his driver's license, I mourned that time. Like he got his driver's license, and all of a sudden he could take himself everywhere that he needed to go. And I missed that time one-on-one to interact with my kid. And so, even though I outsourced a lot of his homeschooling credits, yeah, which is totally getting him there was really special time. And so even as an introvert, that's my encouragement to other introvert moms that this is a season and it's a short one. And so take advantage of every minute you have.

Sandy Zamalis:

Yeah, Natalie, you're when you were describing, you know, that building community piece. I for the first time, because I was a military brat, so I understood the building community piece from a military brat perspective of all right, there's a new person in apartment 11. We gotta go meet them and find out if they have kids. And like you made friends fast. Like you made friends fast, and then they, you know, people were leaving and coming all the time. So you were constantly integrating and shifting that community. And then coming to the states and being stateside and having to run up against civilian life where it doesn't really work that way.

Natalie Mack:

Yeah.

Sandy Zamalis:

You've got to, it's a slow roll to try to build those relationships and friendships. But then homeschooling for me when I became a homeschool mom was like that military experience where all of a sudden you're pulling in people really quickly and you're making friends because you've got you've trying to build that community fast because it just helps you experience life together because we all just want to experience that life together. So I love that description and I love the idea of both of the military piece and the homeschooling piece coming together because I just think of like superpower like networkers out in the world. They know how to get it done.

Natalie Mack:

We tried, yeah, yeah, definitely. We tried. You mentioned apartment and with and I thought she was in the stairwell overseas. I was. Yes. Was it Germany?

Sandy Zamalis:

Yeah, yeah. We lived in Bremerhaven and I was born in Launchstuhl, so yeah.

Natalie Mack:

Wow, I worked out a launch stool. We were a station in Germany. So wow, yeah.

Sandy Zamalis:

But yeah, so that was our life. It's that community building, you know, and you become really close knit when you can do life together. And so we, you know, I think in the homeschooling realm, I worry that I'm glad you answered that question, Ashley, because I worry a little bit that the virtual piece takes away from it a little bit because you're not necessarily down in the weeds with each other as much, but it might be a piece I'm just missing because it's a lifeline, right?

Ashley Barta:

Yeah, yeah. It's just a tool, you know, it's a tool. We don't want to hide behind the computer screen at all. You want those social experiences and you want the group, but I think if you didn't have that online group as a military homeschooler, you wouldn't, you know, but what's the first thing I do when we are PCSing? I join that other military group on base and figure out where we can plug in. Because as military spouses or as homeschool spouses, you know, parents, we want to do all of our research. We want to be prepared, we want that list, and we want to hit the ground running because we don't want to miss any more time. And so, and every base we've been stationed at has been different. Florida, our kids were little, so we didn't need a co-op. We joined play groups, or we went to the zoo, or we went to the local park. Davis Motin in Arizona, that was during COVID, and we actually lived on base. That was our first on base. We'd never lived on base. And so we had a co-op group that met at the park, and it was a wonderful experience because us moms got to to you know have our coffee talk, as I like to say, just because it was, you know, we could complain or we could celebrate or just have a mom day while our kids played. We also had special days where we did nature study or we did presentations, and but I would never have known about that group if I wouldn't have started online first. So that I think that's the thing is virtual, we shouldn't hide behind those computer screens, but it should be a tool. I love that.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Well, we are out of time, but this has been a fantastic conversation, Natalie and Ashley. Is there anything that you'd like to leave our listeners with that you haven't gotten to talk about today?

Natalie Mack:

You know, I wrote an article recently for HSLDA for the leaders groups that they have. And since the audience is not just military, right? Your audience is homeschooling, general homeschooling. And but for the military side, I was the article was helping how to help leaders embrace military families in their co-op and in their support groups. And so I just, you know, want to advocate for you, the leader that might be listening of a co-op or support group, you know, embrace the families that are military that are homeschooling. I know, you know, you may say, well, I don't want to put them in leadership because they're gonna be gone and they'll have to find someone else to fill the spot. But we we are awesome with that and we are we understand, but we just are wanting an opportunity to be welcomed in and to be supported. And so that's probably the thing I just kind of came to mind maybe to advocate for, just leveling the military families and all.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah, I love that you said that too, because we always think about how hard military moves are on children, but it's hard on us too, right? Like we have to leave our friends behind, meet new friends, find where we fit into a community, and we bring those skills and talents and experiences with us when we come to a new place, too. And so we want to use those. And so thank you for that reminder and just to let people know that yeah we have value too there. Yes, yeah, for sure. So, how can our listeners find more from you guys, more of your resources? Where should they go to check it out?

Natalie Mack:

Cute. We have a couple of social media places. So Facebook, of course, Instagram, LinkedIn, and we have a YouTube channel. So everything is Military Homeschoolers Association. So three words. It makes it simple. You can find us that way. Our website is simple, military homeschoolers. That's ERS, because sometimes people think leave the ads off, but dot or g. So you can find us that way. And you know, all of our we have Ashley who does our special needs. We have just an amazing board of women who just love what they do. So we would love for you to just tap into us if you're a military homeschooler or if you're an organization or a resource or anyone that's interested in listening, wants to partner to serve the military homeschool community, definitely reach out to us. The email is infoin-f o at militaryhomeschoolers.org.

Dr. Amy Moore:

All right. We will put that email address and all of those links for your website and social media in our show notes. So, Ashley, Natalie, thank you so much for giving us your time and your heart today. We really appreciate your insights and your wisdom. And thanks for sharing that with our listeners.

Natalie Mack:

Thank you for having us.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Listeners, if you love us, you can find more from us at thebrainymoms.com. You can find us on social media at the Brainy Moms. We'd love it if you would leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts so we can find more moms and dads like you. We hope after spending this hour with us, you feel a little smarter. We'll catch you next time.

Head Shot

Dr. Amy Moore

Host