Gifted and Twice-Exceptional Student Support at Home | Erin Vanek

Gifted doesn’t mean easy, and it certainly doesn’t mean perfect. With gifted educator and 2e advocate Erin Vanek, we dig into what giftedness actually looks like day to day: lightning-fast connections, rich vocabulary, and inventive solutions alongside emotional intensity, executive function gaps, and meltdowns over the smallest snag. We share the language that helps—neurodivergent, twice exceptional, asynchronous development—and the practical moves that turn tension into traction for bright kids who think differently.

We talk through why “definitions” of giftedness vary wildly across schools, and how that confusion leaves many families feeling isolated or dismissed. Erin explains how to spot authentic strengths—rapid learning with fewer repetitions, cross-domain links, divergent thinking—and how to honor them without feeding perfectionism. When a child refuses to show work or challenges a one-right-way method, we model how to teach the why, offer real choice, and compare solution paths for efficiency. If big feelings take over, you’ll hear a simple re-engagement technique that brings the prefrontal cortex back online so problem-solving can start again.

For homeschoolers and parents looking for ways to support their child after school, we map a path that values depth over speed. Instead of racing up grade levels, go lateral: invent operations, flip number orders, and use Bloom’s higher levels to analyze and create. Protect reading joy by pairing accessible texts with deep conversations about character, structure, and theme. And leverage games as a secret classroom for cognitive flexibility, planning, patience, and losing well—ending early when needed and debriefing with curiosity. The takeaway is freeing: gifted is not better or worse, just different. When we stop measuring worth by acceleration and start nurturing thinking, resilience, and engagement, our kids learn to thrive on their terms.

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The Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore and Sandy Zamalis. Dr. Amy and Sandy have conversations with experts in parenting, child development, education, homeschooling, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and advice for helping parents and kids thrive. If you love us, add us to your playlist and follow us on social media! 

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Transcript

Welcome And Newsletter Invite

Dr. Amy Moore 0:00

Hi, Smart Moms and Dads. We are so glad that you've joined us for this episode of the Brainy Moms Podcast, brought to you today by Learning RX Brain Training Centers. I'm Dr. Amy Moore here with my co-host Sandy Zamalis. And before we welcome our guests today, we want to remind you that we have a monthly newsletter. It's free, it's full of great resources related to the topics that we talk about and to parenting in general. So go to the BrainyMoms.com, sign up for that so that you don't miss out. And now our conversation today is with Erin Vanek. Let me tell you a little bit about her in case you don't know who she is yet. Erin is the founder of The Gifted Perspective, whose social media presence has created a community for thousands who are navigating the world of giftedness. The Gifted Perspective also offers tailored workshops and accessible resources for families and educators supporting gifted children. With nearly 15 years as a gifted intervention specialist, a master's degree in education, and licensure in gifted education, she brings deep professional experience to her work. She's also a mom of neurodivergent kids and is twice exceptional herself as an adult, ensuring her work reflects both research and lived experience. She's here today to talk with us about giftedness and all the things that we might not understand about it yet. Welcome, Erin. Thank you.

Erin Vanek 1:28

It's so great to be here. I'm excited for this conversation.

Stigma And Silence Around Giftedness

Sandy Zamalis 1:31

Yeah, we're excited too because Amy and I, we spend a lot of time in sort of the learning struggle side of the equation. Um, kids who are having difficulty in learning. So we're excited to talk about the flip side of that coin, which would be giftedness, what that means, and um, are there things that we can be doing as parents to help support these um unique kiddos and help them to thrive in their environment? So, Aaron, uh, before we get started, why don't we kind of get an overview of your passion and how you got started helping kids with giftedness?

Erin Vanek 2:07

Yeah, absolutely. Um so I am twice exceptional, which we might that might already be a word that people aren't familiar with. Twice exceptional means you are gifted and so, like in my case, I'm gifted and I have ADHD. Um, like essentially it's meaning like there's two ways that your brain is an exception from like typical. So growing up in like public education in the 90s, I was always in gifted services. And so I would get kind of get pulled out. It was back in the time when people believed, you know, like you're gifted from 11 to 12 on Tuesdays, and like that was when I got my one hour of giftedness for the week. But I loved that time. Like it was like when I reflect back on education, like those are the times that stand out to me. So when I became a teacher, I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to be that teacher for somebody else. And so for me, it was a no-brainer. I'm like, I want to go into gifted education. Um, and so I went into it, and it's so funny because then seeing it from the other side as the teacher lens, like I had to change so much because I realized as a kid, like I was never told what that meant. Like I knew I liked that class and it was fun, but I never really processed, well, why do I like it so much? And so when I became an educator, I started thinking, okay, what can I do to make these kids have that same experience? And at first my mindset was all like, well, I need to push them, I need to push them and challenge them and challenge them and challenge them. And we could probably talk later about kind of the shift that I took from that to really understanding how to reach gifted learners. But then I started an Instagram just for like teaching in general. And then I posted a reel. There was like a trend going on at the time, and it was like, you know, what you think something looks like and the reality. I'm like, oh, I should do this for gifted kids. So I just kind of posted it. It got so much just reactions and it was wild. And I'm like, oh, people don't actually know this. It's kind of like when you live in the world, you just assume everyone kind of knows the things that you do. And I'm like, oh, people really didn't know this about giftedness. And so I started kind of dabbling more and realized it was such an isolated world to live in. I think a lot of times if you're parenting a gifted kid, you feel like you can't talk about it openly because it comes across as like bragging. Like society kind of looks at it like, oh, you shouldn't be talking about that. And so a lot of these parents just kind of sit in silence and feel like they're alone. And so I kind of wanted to make a spot on social media where parents could get together and just have community and just feel validated. Just know, okay, it's not just me going through this. Like this is normal. And so that's kind of where the gifted perspective came. And yeah, it's just continued evolving um through the years. And it's fun. I love it.

What Giftedness Means And How It’s Identified

Dr. Amy Moore 5:17

Yeah, as you were talking, it reminded me of a story from when I was in sixth grade. Um, my dad was the principal of that school. And um, I was placed in gifted and talented language arts and math, and it was called the Academically and Intellectually Able Program, AIA. Anyway, I remember uh saying to the school secretary, wow, I did not even know I was gifted. And my dad came around the corner and said, Don't talk about it. Right. And I remember like he had such a visceral response to hearing me say that. And as you were saying, like, right, we're afraid to say that because we don't want to look like we're bragging, right? We don't want to make other people feel bad about their kids. And so he must have had that understanding, right? At being the principal and, you know, working with parents all day, every day, and recognizing, you know, that there are parents who have kids who are struggling who certainly don't want to hear from this 11-year-old. Well, I'm gifted, right? I get it now, but at the time it was like a dagger. Um, like, well, why not? Right. I felt so special, but why can't I talk about it?

Erin Vanek 6:26

Oh, yeah, 100%. I remember, and this is kind of a in second grade, we had a spelling bee, and it was like the whole school spelling bee. And so everyone's like super excited about it. Every class had two kids. Like they would do a little class tryout, and like those are the two kids that got to do it. And again, we were like pulled out for our gifted services, and we come back, and the classroom's like super excited. We're like, oh my gosh, what's going on? What did we miss? Like, oh, well, we did the tryouts while you guys were away, and like, no who's gonna be in the spelling be. And I'm a I'm a terrible speller. I would never have made it anyways, but I was still excited for the chance. But my mom came up because I like held it all in, because again, that's kind of what you do, especially gifted kid in the 90s. You learn just to be the quiet, compliant student. Went home, broke down, and my mom came up, marched up to the school, and like talked to the principal. And she's like, This just isn't fair. Like, those kids didn't get a chance. And the principal was like, Well, no, it's completely fair because if they had a chance to try out, it wouldn't have been fair to all the other students. And she was like, Okay, so like for field day, are you gonna make the really fast kids sit down because it's not fair that they get to run the races? He's like, Well, no, that's different. And like, that was it. And she was like, How is it different? And like, I feel slowly we've started to kind of shift that perspective, but it is so different because you can talk about your kid being great at sports or art or anything like that. But if you do talk about them being like smart or having a lot of knowledge, it is still seen with like that slight stigma. And so, I don't know.

Dr. Amy Moore 8:00

Yeah, and I think, you know, growing up in the 80s and 90s, I think that the philosophy then too was also, well, we have to make it fair for everyone, right? And that idea that fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing, fair means everybody gets what they need, did not emerge until the mid-2000s, I think. Um, and so we did kind of live in that era where there had to be this level playing field, and anything that shifted um that level playing field wasn't fair.

Erin Vanek 8:36

Yeah, absolutely. Like equity versus equality. I talk about that with my students now, even.

Sandy Zamalis 8:43

As an educator, um, let's kind of define giftedness for parents. Um, because, you know, I don't know, as a parent, I think we all feel like our kids are gifted. So what kind of markers would an educator look for when thinking about whether a student could be um enriched or nurtured some more to be in a gifted program, for example? So are is there testing that they do? Um, what do they look for? Um is it specific subject areas that you're looking for them to excel in?

Twice Exceptionality And Classroom Realities

Erin Vanek 9:16

Yeah. So, okay, there's a diff a few different parts of this question that I want to address. The first thing that I think causes a lot of maybe issues in the world of giftedness is that there is not one definition of giftedness. So that right off the bat makes it a struggle. It's hard to like really advocate something that doesn't have a clear-cut definition. Like it's not a diagnosis, it's not something that's in like the DSM 5. It's an identification. And so it is defined differently, even like country to country, state to state, even like district to district. So you can be in one city and go to another school, and they can have different ways that they identify giftedness. So that does make it a struggle. Um overall, like how I like to define giftedness is more from the neurodivergent lens. So, giftedness is a difference in how your brain learns, a gifted brain can make really, really quick and efficient cognitive connections. And so, in doing that, like what that might look like practically, um, someone who is gifted would need less repetitions to learn a concept. Um, somebody who is gifted is able to make connections kind of between domains. So you're talking about dinosaurs, and they're like, oh, that's really similar to this concept in space. And you're like, what? If you've had those moments when you're like, where did that idea come from? That's kind of like that gifted thinking. Um, it's divergent thinking. So when we're talking about divergent thinking, we're talking about somebody who can come up with multiple solutions to one problem. Instead of just finding like one path, they're like, oh, I could do it this way, or I could do it that way, or I could do it this way. Which again, sometimes rubs people the wrong way in gifted children, because, you know, in society, it's like, oh, children should be like compliant and they should listen. And so when you have a student or a child raise their hand and offer, like, yeah, I know you're saying, you know, I should solve it this way. However, this way also works. Some adults are just kind of quick to shut that down. Like, you know, how dare you question me? Like, I told you the way to do it, do it that way. But again, that's the nature of their brain. They're constantly making connections. Um, they're also really quick to be able to retrieve background knowledge. And um, so again, that just helps with that learning. Like we know now, learning, background knowledge is so important to learning. And so gifted brains are able to quickly retrieve facts and again build upon that. Um, yeah, I'm trying some of their like practical things, vocabulary. Usually there's like a you notice um, not just using high words. So it's not just like they're gonna sound like a walking dictionary, but they use the words appropriately and they know they use nuances. So they know when to say, I'm furious versus I'm enraged. Or they like have an appreciation for puns. So they really notice some of the details in words and information. Um okay, and then you did also ask about like testing and that sort of thing. So that goes back to the idea that there's not one single definition of giftedness. I think every district kind of chooses how they want to identify it, which again can be really frustrating, especially for someone like in my position who's just trying to like advocate for these kids. Um so some districts just choose to identify giftedness based on a specific academic subject. So this is typically the based on like a nationally normed test. And they might say, you know, students that score in this percentile are gifted in math, gifted in reading. And then you could be cognitively gifted. So that's when we think of like the traditional IQ. Um, and that's more of that like thinking patterns, right? So you're kind of just quick to make connections, um, you're a critical thinker, you have some of that divergent thinking. And so it just depends on um really the laws that the school needs to abide by. Some states say you have to identify all students who are gifted and you have to offer them services. Some states say you only have to identify them, but by law, you don't have to give them any educational support. And some states say you don't even have to do any of that. So a lot of different answers to that question.

Sandy Zamalis 14:15

No, that was very thorough. Thank you. And I love, I loved it actually, because um, well, anything cognitive is definitely Amy and I's wheelhouse. So I like bringing those in to kind of highlight them. Um, but I also want to bring in the other piece that you highlighted in your intro is that in that there's oftentimes a twice exceptionality. So um let's gear into that uh part of the discussion too, because while they may be really strong in some areas, there also may be some areas where they're struggling, um, which may be a little bit of a disconnect for the adults that are working with them.

Asynchronous Development And Emotional Storms

Dr. Amy Moore 14:49

Yeah, and before you answer that, um, I was actually thinking um as you were talking about this, you know, divergent thinking and how um right, gifted kids can solve problems in more than one way, or they may choose a different way than um what we would typically think. And so talk a little bit about as you talk about this twice exceptionality, talk a little bit about how the interplay of that divergent thinking with a neurodivergent brain. Uh, let me give you one example. Um in math, um my oldest, who was twice exceptional, ADHD and gifted, um would not show his work. He could just look at a math problem and solve it and that you know would be admonished in school because the teacher needed to see how he got from point A to point B. Well, then that would trigger an emotional response, right? And so we know that frequently kids with ADHD have um rejection sensitive dysphoria and you know, emotion dysregulation. And so talk a little bit about that interplay between like how do we balance, you know, allowing kids to think divergently while also like where like talk about that interplay a little bit.

Homeschool Strategies For Depth Over Speed

Erin Vanek 16:14

Yeah, absolutely. Um so the twice exception twice exceptionality, I feel like it's it's starting to become more mainstream. Again, my view might be a little bit skewed because I kind of live in this world. Um, but I know for a very long time it was thought like if you were gifted, you couldn't possibly have any other like difference because you're gifted. So it means you're gifted in kind of all areas, right? People just saw it as like a blanket statement. And so so many people would get excluded from gifted services because like behavior, or maybe they didn't show it on the test, they had anxiety or just whatever it was, they didn't fit that mold, right? A gifted student should kind of sit quietly, they should listen, they should give the right answer and get good grades. So we are starting to learn more. Like you can absolutely have a brain that is gifted that makes really efficient connections and ADHD, autism, dyslexia, um, anxiety, like you name it. So, how that comes into play, I think, from an adult lens, is recognizing that gifted students are not all going to fit one mold. Like there is not a, this is what a gifted kid looks like. It's just not gonna happen. Um and then understanding kind of like the example that you were talking about, Amy, with like those students. Actually, I hear that so much. Like my my kid has to show their work and they hate showing their work. And I know it, I get it. When I teach my gifted students when I taught math a couple of years ago, I would just be very honest with them. I know you guys hate showing your work. And one thing with um reaching gifted learners that is very powerful is telling, teaching the why. And so I know we would say, like, oh, well, I needed to know that you're thinking. And a lot of them would say, Well, yeah, I got the right answer though. So why does it matter? Um and so I would actually do a problem where I would solve something and I would end up with the right answer, but I would go about, I would make some like mistakes in my work, right? And that would have them grade me, be like, okay, what do you think? Like, I got the right answer. And they another thing that they love doing is pointing out those nuances. So they love the idea to grade me and to point out, like, oh yeah, you know, you got the right answer, but you made a mistake right here. I'm like, oh, I did. So what does that tell you? And then that would open that conversation and be like, well, that says, I, you know, I don't know if you know what five plus three is, which again, they love doing. And then they would kind of, they're like, oh, wait a second. And I'm like, yeah. So this helps me know just all of those processes. And then recognizing too, they might not need the same things that every single student needs. So they might not need to show their work for every single problem. Um, that is when I also offer choice into that, because that's coming into again, like that ADHD, um, even a little bit of like that PDA profile, right? Where choice and autonomy is so important. So saying, like, you know, there's 10 math problems. I need to see your work for three of them. I don't care which three you pick, but three of them. Um some of them also, like kind of bumping up to the next level. I'll say, okay, show me your work, but I want you to make one and only one purposeful mistake and see if I can find it. And then they spend so long on their work and like they, it is the neatest. I see kids that normally do chicken scratch all over the place. They are like writing super neat, filling the whole page with all this math, purposefully choosing like one spot. And so I think what it takes is just having an open mind towards these kids and realizing there's not just one way to teach them. And so you have to be flexible. Like that's one thing. Being in a parent of a gifted child, a twice exceptional child, educating them. You have to be okay, kind of giving away some of your power and like having a little bit, I don't know, giving up some of that control. I don't know if that kind of touched on it.

Dr. Amy Moore 20:29

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I mean, that's a great reminder too, because we build relational equity with our kids every time we give them a little bit of control and a little bit of power, right? And so then when there are those occasions where we do have to turn around and say, okay, but I do need you to choose one or two of these problems where I need to see your work, you've built relational equity, right? They've had choice, they've had power and control, and so they're more apt to cooperate in a scenario like that rather than just a blanket policy of, well, this is how it's gonna be. And if you can't comply, we're gonna fight. Yeah, uh, absolutely.

Sandy Zamalis 21:12

What um what can parents do to help understand their kids from that giftedness lens, but maybe also understand the emotional um development side of that equation? Because I think a lot of times for kids that are really smart and can do some of that, you know, high-level critical thinking, uh, we as adults sometimes tend to assume they can handle more things than they can handle in reality. And developmentally, they might not be able to. So talk about that a little bit. How can we kind of work with that with our kids, give it a better frame of while my kid may be doing calculus, um, they they can get frustrated with other tasks.

Building Frustration Tolerance And Safety

Erin Vanek 22:00

Yeah, absolutely. So that has a name. It's called asynchronous development. And it's the idea that gifted brains don't develop evenly in all areas. And I think, like you said, the assumption is that when you when you have a kid who is talking to you like a college professor and using this vocabulary, it's it's natural to just assume that that level of development is going to transfer in all areas. Like, oh, well, this kid must be very in control of their emotions and have really great handwriting and all this kind of like fine motor skills, all that. But all of those are different size and they're all going to develop at different times. And typically, in a gifted student or gifted individual, you'll see that cognitive development will be higher, but that emotional development might be on level or even lagging a little bit. And so, like I know I deal with this at home. I have an eight-year-old who is cognitively gifted, twice exceptional. He also has ADHD. And my husband and I are always talking about it because we're like, he can, like, he could sit and have a conversation with us about like Greek mythology, but my gosh, the tantrums that he seems to throw when like his sweatshirt won't zip the right way or something. Like we know that logically he can understand this. Like, this is how zippers work. Yet in this moment, um again, when you think about those quick connections with the brain, what also happens is this getting a little like neuroscience-y, that limbic system, which is in control of like your emotions. It's kind of like that fight or flight, right? It's like that real raw, like, are you safe? Are you not? The gifted brain is also super connected among different networks. So gifted brains are really quick to hop back into that limbic system. And so they feel like really anxious and when um, like they don't have an answer to something, and they can kind of go from zero to eleven and they don't have the tools yet to kind of get themselves down. A lot of times when a gifted kid is in that space where they're really dysregulated, it's hard for them to come back. And so we then can sometimes get frustrated, like, again, like, come on, you know how a zipper works, like you know, you just have to try again. You just talk to me, give me a dissertation on Zeus. Like, come on, you can do this. Um, but they they honestly can't in that moment. And so one trick, strategy, hack, I don't know, something that I've done just to kind of get by, is I realized what helped my son and helps a lot of my students now is re-engaging that prefrontal cortex. So that cognitive brain that is usually like um more developed and has these quicker connections. So, like the example with my son, he was having he was having a really hard time. He was completely dysregulated. It was had to do with like breakfast. We didn't have the food he wanted, and there was just like no getting through to him. And so I asked him just to ring it. I was like, hey, tell me about Pecos Bill, who was in a thing I knew he had been learning about in school. And he stopped and he took a breath and he told me a fact. And he was still upset, but now he was able to like reach his cognitive brain so we could actually talk about it and process it. And that has been huge with my gifted students, with my gifted children trying to do a quick cognitive engagement where they'll feel successful. Like, don't give them a problem that's gonna be impossible to solve, but enough to like turn on that cognitive brain. Because again, their brain is so interconnected that it's quick to go back to that limbic system. You need to kind of get it back to that prefrontal cortex.

Dr. Amy Moore 25:58

Is this a common pattern where we see asynchronous development of the different areas of development?

Games As Training For Flexible Thinking

Erin Vanek 26:07

It can even go like someone asked me once if you can grow out of a synchronous development. No, it kind of just like continues on into adulthood. That's what you might get, it might appear different, but you might have gifted like college kids or gifted individuals in their 20s who are really like pondering like the existential like crisis of you know life and death and issues that m aren't typically like pondered and thought about deeply until maybe later in life. But you do see some of that like disconnect. And again, that can make it a little bit tricky with peer relationships. I hear that a lot from parents too. Like, I feel like my gifted kid doesn't have a lot of friends, or even as a gifted adult, I feel so lonely because the issues that I'm thinking about, the things that I'm worried about, don't seem to match my chronological age peers, where the things that, you know, my child is into aren't matching the other kids in their class. And so I think that's where that asynchronous development can make it tricky socially as well.

Sandy Zamalis 27:16

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Reading Levels, Engagement, And Going Deeper

Dr. Amy Moore 28:38

So a large majority of our audience are home educators. And I know that you give parents advice all the time about how to support their gifted child at home. In thinking about parents who are not only supporting their children in the evenings and on weekends, but during the day as well, is it fair to say that when we are homeschooling our child, we're already individualizing instruction to meet their developmental needs? So the dichotomy between gifted and not gifted kind of flattens in a homeschool environment for the most part. But what can parents do who have kids who have either A, already been identified as gifted by a school system and are now being educated at home, or what can parents do when they start thinking, hey, I think my kid might be gifted? What should they be looking for and then doing to support that?

Key Takeaways And Where To Find Erin

Closing Reminders And CTAs

Erin Vanek 29:46

Yeah, that's a great question. I think the first piece of advice that I would say is to reframe how you, I guess, your goal for your educating your gifted child. I think many times we feel that gifted kids, and again, this is when I started teaching. This was my philosophy. Like they need to be pushed. Like I was teaching seventh graders, they should be doing ninth grade work. And then now that they do ninth grade, they do 10th grade. And I think we see gifted education as a ladder. And like our job as parents is or educators is to make sure that they keep climbing that ladder, or else we're, you know, not using their giftedness or their giftedness is gonna go away. Like I get a lot of parents that their first reaction when they learn that their kid is gifted is they're fearful that they, as the parent, are gonna like mess it up. Um so what I would say, instead of seeing giftedness as like a ladder again that you climb up, think about going like more laterally. So going sideways into it. So you go want to go deeper into a topic. Because that gifted brain can make so many of these connections, instead of just having like maths kind of a way to look at this, like, oh, they can add. Now let's teach subtraction, now let's teach multiplication, now division, not just going up the ladder, go deeper into those core concepts. So ask about, you know, addition. Okay, well, what would happen if we switch the numbers around? Like play around with the numbers. Um, can they invent their own mathematical operation symbol, right? Like what does it take to have an operation? Well, you have to have a number, a symbol has to tell you what to do. Um, but think about I use like Bloom's taxonomy a lot and think about ways that they can evaluate and create. So judgment, rating, which one is more effective? Um, have them try different ways of solving something and which method was quicker, more efficient, and why. All of that is going to be so much more powerful than just giving them the next level up in like a worksheet. The other thing that I think is huge when you are educating a gifted kid is understanding that you're not just educating them academically, but that social emotional piece. And a lot of times gifted kids struggle with frustration tolerance because they've never experienced it. And that's a skill you have to build, like how to sit with not knowing something. And what we see when we hear about like gifted kid burnout and all that kind of stuff, it's usually these gifted individuals who are never given a chance to build that skill. And all of a sudden, they're, you know, in high school or college or in their career, they kind of hit that roadblock and they don't know what to do. They don't have the skills to do that. Um, so as a parent homeschooling, you have a fantastic opportunity to build in some of that learning. Um, don't be afraid of your gifted kid not being able to do something. Right. I think some parents are like, well, my kid's gifted, so they should be getting all A's, they should be getting everything right, and they don't know this. That's okay. Like it's okay to teach them how to struggle through something that like that productive struggle. Um, I know in my classroom, I have like a giant bulletin board that's like levels of frustration. And so we identify that a lot. I'm like, okay, you know, who's feeling level three right now? Like, that's okay. And we move through it. Um, naming that feeling. And again, um being okay with that discomfort of not knowing everything and knowing that your kid isn't going to know everything. It doesn't mean you're failing as an educator. It doesn't mean you're doing something, I don't know, that's going to hurt your child in the future. But it's so powerful to kind of build that frustration tolerance.

Dr. Amy Moore 33:52

Yeah, minimum life skill.

unknown 33:54

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 33:55

Right. Yeah. I mean, what where else can you give them a sense of emotional safety to work through that process of learning frustration tolerance than in that loving relationship with you? Right. Rather than like waiting for them, like solving a problem instantly so that they don't feel frustration. And then as adults, not having those skills. And especially if you're working with someone who is twice exceptional, they're they're already um fighting against that um frustration and emotion dysregulation many times as well.

Erin Vanek 34:34

So what a great way to build that in. So many people assume, and I think you touched on this earlier, like when somebody is gifted, like giftedness equals no struggles. And that's just so not the case. Like every single person who is gifted has an area they struggle in, whether it's academic or not. It could be emotionally, it could be um more abstract, like logic, but they're gonna have an area of struggle, and that's okay. It doesn't mean they're not gifted. It just means that that's an area that you can like lean into a little bit.

Sandy Zamalis 35:07

I love that it's the embracing of that problem-solving kind of um space. And I would imagine from a parent perspective, that would be intimidating, right? Because as parents, we just like to, you know, fix things and smooth it over and make it easy. But what I'm hearing you say is we have to find whether you homeschool or not. Um, if you've got a gifted student, you almost have to um kind of devise some problem-solving opportunities because that's getting into that prefrontal cortex. We want them in that part of their brain as often as we can because that's where they're gonna thrive and actually grow. If things are too easy for them, they're gonna be bored and we're not strengthening the peace they need when they get into adulthood. Because like you pointed out, they're gonna hit a wall at some point where they've got to figure this out. And, you know, hopefully they've still got some support systems in place to help them. Um, it's really hard when they're in college and they hit the wall because you, you know, there's no one there. Um, and you're watching it in real time and it's, you know, hard to watch. But um, I really think sometimes a kids who struggle are a little bit more at an advantage in a lot of ways because they've had to struggle all along. And so they've built mechanisms and strategies. Um, and our gifted kids tend to struggle there because it's always just come easy. Um, they didn't never had to think deeply or really give themselves time to figure it out. So stretching that muscle for them takes some time. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%.

Dr. Amy Moore 36:43

So, what are some of the key lessons that you've learned um in your 15 years of experience as a gifted educator that you want to pass along to parents?

Erin Vanek 36:58

Okay, one thing that I would say, and I think I learned this as an educator, but also as a mom to um two twice exceptional kids. So I have two kids, uh, three children, two are identified as gifted with um autism and ADHD. So we are swimming in neurodivergence. Um, but one thing that I've learned is the power of playing games, which again, I think sometimes when we think about giftedness, we are really focused on like academic achievement. But you build so many skills with your gifted children when you play games with them. And it is hard. I understand that because gifted children, they don't like to lose. They will argue every step of the way, but that is just why it is so important. And so when I'm talking about playing games like with um with parents, I always tell them like, first of all, make sure that you are in a good headspace for it. Like you can't go into it, like you have to go into it knowing like this is gonna be tough. And so if you're not in the space to kind of treat it as an emotional or as a like a learning opportunity, then just say no, play it another time. Also, you don't always have to finish the game. Like just engaging in it a little bit, that is still gonna be building skills. But when you are playing these games, like you're working on flexible thinking, you're working on like a gifted student who had a plan of what they're gonna do when someone takes their move, they have to be able to switch that. Um, that cognitive flexibility is super hard for our gifted kids. Um, even like our just nerd or like twice exceptional kids, right? Prioritizing and all that kind of stuff, dealing with not winning. So playing games, huge. Second thing that I've learned, um, don't stress out so much about reading levels. It's kind of like a niche piece of advice, but I think it's a powerful one. I know when I first started teaching, I was very much like, this is what your level is. You have to read in that level. And I remember a student being like, but I don't like any of those books. And I'm like, well, you have to, or else, or else you won't be gifted anymore. I don't know. I guess we kind of assume, like, if our kids don't read Shakespeare, when they can read Shakespeare, they're, I don't know, they're gonna like lose their giftedness. So when you are gifted in reading, the power in growing that is through the discussion that you have. And you could have a powerful discussion about dogman, like, talk about the characters, talk about like the plot, and are there any lessons you can learn? So I think what happens a lot is gifted kids are kind of then forced into material because cognitively they're at that level. But again, going back to that asynchronous development, like developmentally, socially, emotionally, they're not at that level. And that's when they start to hate school and hate learning. They're like, well, then I don't want to be gifted if I have to read Shakespeare and all my friends get to read graphic novels. So it's okay if your gifted kid is again picking up a dog man book or a diver of a wimpy kid. Like let them read for engagement. And if you are looking to like build on that again in like the homeschool environment, focus on the discussion, focus on the questions, on how you can dive deeper, not so much on what the text is. So I guess those will be two kind of specific pieces of advice.

Dr. Amy Moore 40:32

Yeah, I really love that. Um, I was a teacher before I was a psychologist. And so I always said that I could teach every subject with a book, um, because you can make those connections with science, with math, um, with history, with economics, with geography, right? All from a story. And so it kind of goes back to that advice to go deeper on that one thing or with that one thing. And I think if you are matching their interests um in reading, then that's gonna build motivation to stick with it, right? Whereas I don't know many 13-year-olds that are gonna stick with Shakespeare for too long. There's, I'm sure there are one or two out there. Uh, I was not one of them. Uh I probably went to the beach those days. Um I just threw myself under a bus. I grew up on the beach. Um, and Shakespeare days were beach days in high school. Um so if graphic novels are the way to keep your child engaged, right? Then build on that through all the subjects, right? Like through make that the common thread.

Sandy Zamalis 41:55

And I love the the board game piece too. Like I when you were telling that story, Erin, I was thinking of like the, you know, the knockdown drag out like fights we had at home with my kids, like if my son lost Monopoly. You know, or um, you know, just thinking of, you know, for parents, it's a key thing for you as a a way to kind of observe your kids to when you pick games, if there is a a you know, a visceral reaction to that particular game for you to go, well, I wonder what about this game sparks that or triggers that in you? What is it about? Is it too fast? Um, so maybe we need to work on you know thinking quickly or playing it without the pressure until you have enough speed that you can kind of be in the mix with everybody else or like think about it strategically and it will give you some really interesting information about what your child does and doesn't do well. Like my son, he hated subjective games. So if there was anything subjective to it, he was out. Yeah, but that was a good piece of information for me. Like, okay, well, we need to practice that because in life there's a lot of subjectivity, it's not about black and white.

Erin Vanek 43:08

Yeah. But that is so true. I know a lot of gifted kids, like, they hate Candyland because really Candyland is just like luck when it comes down to it, and they get so frustrated by that. I'm like, okay, I kind of see it. And I do a lot of like proactive conversations with my own kids, and I still do it now, and like they they even like know my script. I'll be like, okay, we're about to play a game, you know what that means. I'm like, we know someone's gonna win. It might be us, it might not be us. And they're all they always point at me. They're like, Well, that means you too, mommy. You might not win. I'm like, I know I might not win, and I will try not to throw a fit. And there's one time my now eight year old, he was going over that. He goes, Yeah, I think if I don't win, I think I'm gonna throw a tantrum and start screaming. I'm like, okay, well, then let's not play that game right now because maybe you're just not in that space. Thanks for being honest and being aware. But um Yeah, we start every single game in that way, even now.

Dr. Amy Moore 44:05

Yeah, we uh you were joking about how you have this neurodivergent lab in your home. My my home was a neurodivergent lab as well. And I have this memory that popped up on Facebook recently of a snow day uh, you know, game around the dining room table with my husband and all three of my boys. And so I snapped a picture, posted it on Facebook, and said something like Snow Day game of Catan. And then I posted another picture less than an hour later with my husband sitting alone at the table with this, you know, empty board, and said, and then there was one because it went from uh fear of failure to anger at failure to anger at losing to fighting to fighting over not cheating or cheating or whatever it was, and they all just gave in with tears and screaming and cursing, and there's my husband just sitting there alone.

Erin Vanek 45:05

That is so funny. Yeah, that I mean, that is it in a nutshell, 100%.

Dr. Amy Moore 45:12

Money.

unknown 45:13

Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore 45:14

Well, is there anything that you have not gotten to talk about today that you want to make sure you leave our listeners with?

Erin Vanek 45:20

Um, I guess just my big takeaway when we stop seeing giftedness as just like a I don't know, a marker of academic achievement. And when you see it more as like, this is the way my kid thinks, it doesn't mean they're better. It doesn't mean they're worse, it just means that they think differently. Um it helps us kind of just have less pressure all around. Like it lets us as parents kind of release some of that pressure that again, like, oh, we have to have them meet A, B, C, and D, or else we're not doing enough. And it also gives them pressure to like have struggles, right? Like you can be gifted and you can have struggles. Like it just means your brain thinks differently about things. I think that would be kind of a key thing I would want to leave listeners with.

Dr. Amy Moore 46:15

And if listeners want to learn more from you, where can they find you? What do you have to offer?

Erin Vanek 46:20

Yeah, so um my website, thegiftedperspective.com, I have like tailored workshops on specific ideas of giftedness, like asynchronous development that we talked about, and just kind of like a what is giftedness, overexcitability. So all these kind of niche areas of giftedness. Um they're very conversational based, but just to give parents again understanding. I think in order to help our kids, we have to understand them. And then I like to offer just practical support. Um, so if you want to really learn more, that's a great spot. And then I'm also on social media. You can follow me at Instagram at gifted or the dot gifted dot perspective.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:05

All right, and we will put uh links to uh your website and uh your social media handles in our show notes. So, Aaron Vanick, thank you so much for being with us today. I know that our listeners uh were blessed with this time uh with you and will have uh takeaways that are super valuable. So thanks for taking time out from your busy schedule uh to be with us today.

Erin Vanek 47:31

Thank you so much for having me. This is such a fun conversation.

Dr. Amy Moore 47:35

Yeah. Um, we love um talking about new concepts that maybe our listeners haven't thought about. Um, and so you have a unique perspective just with your education and experience, you know, that we haven't talked about before, that asynchronous develop is development is a brand new concept for our listeners. So uh glad to have something new to uh toss around in here. Listeners, thanks for being with us today. We love it that you choose to spend an hour with us every week. Don't forget, if you want more from us, uh sign up for our newsletter at theBrainyMoms.com. You can find us on social media at the Brainy Moms. Be sure to check out Sandy on TikTok at the Brain Trainer Lady. And that is all we have for you today. We hope that you feel a little bit smarter after spending this time with us.